Ep 17: Love After Losing Your Spouse

The great A.W. Tozer says, it is doubtful whether God can bless a man greatly until he has hurt him deeply. If you're wondering if love after loss is possible, this episode is for you. Welcome to the Run to the Heart podcast where we're here to remind you that God doesn't promise us a life free from suffering, but he always brings healing and restoration on the other end. Our goal is to inspire you to face life's trials with courage and trust in God's plan. And oh yeah, run to the heart that God allows. Crystal, welcome back to the Run to the Heart podcast. Thank you. Now not everyone gets through all of our episodes, but if you haven't listened to the last episode, you gotta stop right now, and you gotta go back and finish it, first and foremost. Because there's an amazing surprise at the end, and that's kind of what we're going into right now, so let's not blow it here. Do that right now. Okay? It's up there right? I'll put it somewhere. Okay? So at the end of the episode you mentioned Crystal, people were so enamored by your story and all of the things that you experienced but you mentioned that there was a guy in your life now. That the Lord had dropped another guy in your life. And it was a bit cryptic. And so I'd love to know, you know, who is this guy? This guy's name happens to be Curtis. Oh, is that right? Curtis Christopher. Oh my goodness. Okay. So this is amazing. There's, there's a story behind this. So Curtis, I asked you a lot of tough questions. And you said, oh, Chris, I'm not ready to date. I'm not ready to date. Dude, what happened? Yep. So crazy story. Literally right after that series or that episode aired, I think it was two or three days later. I get a text from a woman Thanking us for our show now. We get messages all the time, but this was different This was a text and my first thought was who has my cell phone Love it. Oh my what is going on? And I even called you I said Chris some woman just texted me on my number and not only that she wants to go for a Walk. Oh you freaked out you were you were you were like dude. I don't know man. I don't know Okay, so so keep carrying me through what happened all right, so she tells me her name She says that her brother sent me her link sent her our link But she failed to tell us who her brother was in this first message. So I jump on Facebook and look her up to see, oh, I know who her brother is, and I make the connection. And so I reach back out and just say, okay, so this is your brother. And she actually happened to be friends with one of my cousins, which was a whole different story, which was kind of weird. But anyways, so we just start a friendly conversation. But the first text, yeah, I'm not gonna lie, it freaked me out a little bit. Yeah, I love it, I love it. Okay, so I'll pause you there because now I want Crystal's perspective. So Crystal, where were you at at this point? We know from the last episode and we know from what Curtis just said, your brother sends you this link, okay? You had lost your husband, you're listening to this story of our podcast where Curtis loses his wife and you connect. So take me from there. Yeah, no, I mean my brother sent me the podcast, Not Unusual. He's done that all year long. And it happened to be episode seven. So I listened to that, connected immediately with a story because I'm walking through the exact same story. You know, tragic divorce, tragic sudden illness, and then tragic loss of my husband and also being in the space of still feeling married, but being completely lonely. And so I understood him in a way that I knew most people probably didn't. And just a lot of what he was saying was really resonating with me, but what was really impactful was just how, um, just how hard it is to experience what we've experienced, but then to go on and talk about it publicly. I was really just kind of touched by that. And honestly, it helped me to know I'm not alone, like someone else out there understands what I'm feeling. And so that was why I reached out to him. I don't remember mentioning the walk the first time, by the way. I think that was after a few text exchanges. To be fair, women have better memories than us, Curtis. So we will concede. But the walk has been, walking has been my healing space. And there are so many walking trails around my house. And every, like most of my really close neighbors, they know, hey, if I'm out for a walk, I'm texting Crystal to see if she's available to walk with me. And I've walked with many widows and it's just been very natural for me. So I wasn't putting the connection together of how far away he lived. So he shouldn't have been flattered, right? He should not have been flattered by you asking to be. Okay. She should not have been flattered. He took that a different way. I love it. It was truly just a way for us to be like, you know, very natural and not date-like, for us to be like, let's go talk about some hard things and let me share my story with you because you're going to be blown away how similar our stories are. I was in no way in a space of dating either. And it was not I was not. Yeah. So tell him tell him what you thought about Episode seven. Like I don't want to date. You don't want to date. So he's safe. Yeah, I did. I true. You know, I when I had started having a conversation with him, I and we actually talked about that right in our very first conversation. And I was like, perfect. Me, too. I'm like not interested I'm really really busy mom right now and I'm mentally my head's not wrapped around you know just dating I didn't even honestly feel like I had the time for it yeah yeah so so something I remember about episode 7 was at the very end I asked Curtis to pray I asked him I asked him to pray and he was just very specific about each person he was praying. You heard that prayer and something really clicked for you. Yeah, yeah. And especially after we are dating and I've actually gone back and listened to that prayer. It felt honestly like he was praying specifically for me and for my daughters. There were points in the prayer where he was praying for the fatherless. He was praying for that person that just randomly stumbled across their podcast. It was the first time they were there hearing it and just being in a space of grief. That was where I was. And I sat down when he was in that space of praying, and I just opened my hands, and I had my eyes closed, and I just received that prayer as he was praying that prayer. It did feel specific to me and to my particular circumstance at that point. Yeah. Gotcha. So, I'll give you my perspective. I'm in the same boat where Curtis is not interested in anyone. He calls me one day. He's like, dude, I went on a walk with, with this chick. He calls everyone chicks. He goes, dude, I went on a walk with this chick. And like, I mean, at first I was like, man, this is weird. Why, why are we going to do this? And, and she started telling me her story and it was amazing. So he starts to tell me how amazing your story is, right? I'm thinking nothing of it. Then at the very end, he goes, he goes, yeah, and I mean, dude, she's cute. I was like, okay, all right. So that kind of like clicked for me. I was like, hmm, this is interesting. And then when I got on the phone with you to kind of hear your story and see if this was right for our podcast, I remember wondering like, does she feel the same way? Like what exactly is going on? And so it was funny for me to kind of be in the middle of all that. But yeah, so Curtis, you and Crystal go on this walk. You know that you want her to be on the Run to the Heart podcast and tell her amazing story. Yeah, yeah. We actually never went on a walk. Oh, you never went on a walk? No, it's only phone calls. Oh, oh Okay, all right Yeah, he was like, how about we start with a phone call and I was like, oh, yeah, that's probably better Then you said I was kind of cute Oh, oh, oh, he did. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, I felt like I was broing out with him I was like, ah, this is awesome. Okay, so you guys discussed this walk That's normal to you. Curtis is a little, maybe, uncomfortable with this, but what happens next? So we're, at this point, we're texting back and forth and actually diving into our story. And I become interested enough in the story, I'm like, listen, this texting, this is hard. Can I just call you? And she's like, yeah, that would be great. And so our first actual conversation was a phone call and it was awkward. I remember I literally said, hey, by the way, I don't know you and I don't know your situation, but I'm not interested in a relationship. And I just wanted to get that out of the way so we didn't have any awkwardness. And she was like, oh, that's great because I was thinking the same thing. So we're on the same page. There you go. So it started with a phone call where we just literally poured our guts out and told our stories to each other so that's that's really how it started. Gotcha. So that's where the connection was you guys are connecting over this thinking okay I don't want anything she doesn't want anything we're good. When was it that you figured out you know hey this lady is easy on the eyes? I mean you called me right? You called me and you were like, dude. So, you know, I thought it was weird at first, whatever, but dude, she's cute. And I was like, what? Wow, things have changed. I mean, I looked her up. I had to figure out who she was. You had to Facebook creep a bit, okay. Yeah, I know, I told you. I had to see who in the world she was. And she was telling me her brother gave me her number, gave her my number. And I was like, who is her brother and all that so yeah so I looked her up I saw what she looked like. Okay okay deal deal I love it I love it so she's like man I did it. Ask if I looked Curtis up I did not. You did not. I did not. It was blossom away. Okay so so that's that's my next question so he's like okay she's cute, but I'm still not ready for a relationship. You're like, hey, we connected deeply over the story and we both understand each other more than most would understand each other. Crystal, when did things start to shift for you? No, first it actually shifted for Curtis. I had a feeling he was starting to get feelings for me and I'll be honest, it freaked me out. And I was like, I remember thinking, I knew it. You can't be friends with guys like they it's not the same. And I had this little moment of like, I think he's getting feelings for me. And so I was like, trying to think of my like, exit strategy. Oh, dang, like how to, how to like, kind of press pause on the friendship we were developing. And then all of a sudden, I mean, I, like it was like a wave knocked me over and I just suddenly developed feelings for him. And it's like, I fell for him immediately to then where I think I freaked him out. Um, because once I turned on, my feelings turned on and it became more of an interest relationship. I was in, you know, I was interested. And yeah, I think Curtis was like, whoa, she's too in. I think I scared him. Okay. So Curtis, I got to ask you, man, Obviously, we've had conversations and you still love Michael and Crystal still loves Brandon. These are the realities, guys. I'm interested to know and I'm sure many are interested to know, Crystal talked about waves. What does that roller coaster look like for you as far as I'm interested and then, wow, she's falling hard. And you know, what's what's the day to day like in terms of emotions when you're like, oh man I have someone who's interested. I'm interested, but I'm still grieving. Oh, yeah It's it is an absolute roller coaster. And by the way, somebody best described Crystal recently is all gas and no brakes all gas Okay When she was in when she says she was in she was in and it was like, whoa, what's going on? But, you know, I'll never forget. Cause I did, I started feeling or falling hard and she went quiet. And then it wasn't 24 hours later. She was like, oh my word. Do you feel what I'm feeling? And I was like, yeah, but I didn't know how to describe it. And she's the one who described it. She says, it feels like this, this wave just crashing in on us, just swallowing up with all these emotions. It was probably the best description because you and I had recently talked about the waves of grief and how the waves of grief come crashing in, and this was a different wave. It was a God thing. It was something that neither one of us had ever experienced before. And so when it hit us, we were like, whoa, what just happened? And it was neat to be able to share, you know, we're mature, we're older. We're not 20 year olds who are struggling with how to communicate and, and how to tell each other how we're feeling. But it was a neat experience to be able to say, oh my word, what just happened? And are you experiencing that? And then of course the dude in me is like, Hey, you want to go on a date? There you go. That is a whole story by itself. You just talked about the emotions of being in love with your spouse. We have talked so much about Michael and about Brandon and these amazing spouses that we had and we've allowed each other to have this space to breathe out our stories and our love for for them and so I Used to think that might be a weird thing Watching somebody else go through that but for her and I to be able to express that Was a really freeing thing it felt freeing to be able to tell somebody who I'm falling in love with how amazing the person that I had was. And we both went through that. And I'll go right there. I'll go to the first date. I mean, I asked people, I'm like, hey, did you ever cry on your first date? And they're like, no, that would be terrible. I was like, well, we did. Like we sobbed. Like we sobbed. emotional, like I'm connecting with you, but I'm in love with my spouse and we're experiencing these same roller coaster of emotions together and Hmm why don't you take over Crystal because I'm I'm at a loss for words Well, yeah like to the And the sobbing part on our first date, I feel like I was the one that first started crying and it was our first hug. We just kind of embraced each other and my head was, you know, leaned up against Curtis's chest and my ear could hear his heart beating hard. And it didn't take long until it triggered me. And that's what Curtis and I have experienced a lot is we're experiencing a lot of grief triggers as we're getting to know each other. But the trigger for me was my head was laying on my husband's chest as his heart stopped. And it was probably one of the most painful part of my lifetime was hearing his heart stop and knowing the rip and the change in my life forever. And so to be embracing a different person and hearing the heartbeat and just the significance of life and just knowing that there's still more life to live and and he just felt so alive and it just it was really triggering um because it didn't take away yeah like meeting Curtis doesn't take away Brandon and and I know he feels that way about Michael too, and it's Yeah, it's we go through these phases of like like we've used the words a lot. This is messy like this is it's not normal dating where It's so good. It's have a dad and their dad is Brandon and you know Yeah, yeah, like and and it's just like this. We're just on this journey of incorporating our past and our present. So Crystal, question. I know that and many people know who are married for several years that we have a lot of interesting conversations with our spouses like, hey, what would how long would it be before you dated if I passed away and vice versa? And spouses have different opinions on this. My wife has said, like, okay, you need to at least wait three or four years or something like that. You know what I mean? So did you and Brandon have those conversations? And if so, what were those conversations with you and Brandon? And how, how's that kind of impacted how you're moving forward? Yeah, that's crazy. We had never had that conversation until he got sick. And, and it was before he was going to transplant. And, you know, we had, we had done a lot of planning ahead before we went to transplant because transplant is so serious. And so we had talked about if he didn't make it and, you know, we had even honestly like sort of planned a funeral out, which is like unreal to even have that conversation. But we wanted to know each other's wants and desires. And I remember saying at the end, okay, that conversation's done, stuff it in a box and we're not going there anymore. But Brandon had said, you know, you know, if something happens to me, I want you to move forward and find somebody else. And I was like, oh my goodness, you don't even know what you're asking. I'm like, how am I going to find somebody else? What does that look like? Like, I don't, I would never want to do that. That's so, I'm like, I don't know if I would find someone. And, and he was like, Crystal, you are amazing. And he was just like, you will find somebody. You're an amazing wife and I want you to be with somebody else and so and and I kind of like snuffed the Conversation out because I was like we're not talking about this like you're fighting You're gonna beat this like stop talking about it, but thank you, you know but fast forward he didn't make it and Those words of him calling me amazing, being an amazing spouse, it's words I cherish. Like I cannot even erase the sound of his voice, like saying that to me and knowing that that's what I was to him. Like I wanted to be nothing but amazing because he was nothing but amazing. And yeah, so. So I'll ask you the same question, Curtis. Did you and Michael have these conversations about, hey, what if one of us passed away prior to her getting sick? And how has that changed and how you're moving forward with the relationship with Crystal? Michael did, and I hated it. It was awful. It was three days before she died. And she looked over at me and she said, you're an amazing guy and you are my best friend and you are going to find somebody else. And I was like, stop it. I actually said, you just stop. I don't want to hear it. And she says, no, I really believe that you're gonna find another person. And Crystal and I, believe it or not, when we were in the friend zone, it was a lot of fun because we were just open. We were telling these stories to each other. I bet it was probably maybe the second phone call we had this conversation because she asked me, she said, hey, did Michael ever ask you this? I told her, yeah. She said, Brandon did too. We shared those stories with each other. We both went on to say that my wife set the bar so high and Crystal was like, Brandon did too. He was an amazing husband. And we both said to each other, we don't think we'll ever find somebody as good as our spouses. Like that's how open we were with each other. Like the bars were set so high that our spouses were like, no, you guys are. Really, really great husbands and best friends and wives and you deserve somebody else. And that was, that was hard. I hated it, but it's a connection that Crystal and I have where we were able to share that experience with each other. And oh my goodness. That is, those are, I mean, those are deep, deep conversations. And, you know, here's a question. It's so Brandon says, I want you to find someone. You're an amazing woman. And Michael says, I want you to find someone. You're an amazing man. Does that mean that there's just no guilt on either of your parts here and you feel like you have the green light or, you know, what, what guilt exists that other listeners could resonate with who are like, I want love after loss, but I'm scared. She can speak on this. There's no guilt because we didn't look for this. We weren't looking to date. We weren't going online. We weren't out there. We weren't, you know, and she can tell you she's an attractive lady. She's had guys, contractors, different people come into her life and her home to try to help her out. And, you know, she's been pursued. I, in weird ways, have been pursued. Like, we have zero interest in dating whatsoever. We didn't plan this. I mean, I can look her in the eye and she can look me in the eye. We did not plan this. Like, God hit us with this. And so it's not about guilt of our spouse, it's about God had to do this amazing thing in our lives. And it doesn't mean it's easy, and I know we're going to talk about that, but this is all a God thing. That was just a prerequisite to, we had such amazing spouses that God was able to use them to tell us. man, prophetic if I could say that? Like our spouses were like, God's gonna give you somebody even though we weren't willing to receive it at the time. So, you know, I don't think it's guilt. I think it's just hard. We're doing something that's, it is hard. There's no other explanation for it. Yeah. Would you second that, Crystal? Or is there anything you would add on that? Or do you have a different perspective? Yeah, I mean, no, I've not had any guilt with this whatsoever. A death, there's so much finality to it that there's no changing that. And so walking forward with life, not going to be with Brandon. And it doesn't mean my heart has changed and that my thoughts on who he was and what we had is different. It's not. Like, I just know I can't continue loving him in the flesh. So I've had zero guilt as far as my relationship with Curtis. I've certainly had triggers, but no guilt. Like it has been what him and I have, it's so tender and it's so sweet and beautiful because we have this extreme understanding of each other. And he shares with me about Michael and I'm like, I absolutely love her. Like, I love her. And yeah, like it's... Wow. That's huge because a question I have for you is and this is a funny question, but So this podcast was built on the foundational principle and mantra of Michael Christopher Curtis's wife and how she runs to hard things and so I mean, let's say you guys get married and we're 10 years down the road and we're still running this podcast and it's in memory of Michael Christopher and that's how this ministry started. I mean, I know we can't always deal in hypotheticals here, but do you see there ever becoming a point like, okay, enough about Michael and how great she was because I'm your wife now. Like, what do you say to that? Zero. Zero. Like, that's... She's not gone just because she's passed. Like, her kids carry her forward. Like, if anyone put that expectation on me, they would be gone in a second. Like, my kids, that's their dad. That's my husband. Like I didn't ask for this title to be widowed. In fact, when when I was first like slammed with, I've got widow over my forehead, I go to the grocery store and people's eyes as they're looking at me is just pain. And yeah, you're given this title of widowed that you don't ask for. And so I would never, yeah, zero, it wouldn't matter if it was 50 years from now. Hopefully we live that long, Curtis. I love it. I love it. Yeah, it wouldn't matter. There's so much grace in that answer, Crystal. And that's not... Like, there's so much grace in that answer. I feel like many people heard me ask that, and they're like, oh yeah, she's probably going to be like, there's some threshold here where I need to be, I need to be your wife, and we need to we need to not idolize this person who has passed. And so, question, Curtis, run to the heart, right? Would it have been easier to just stay by yourself and go do your thing and have your own plans than it is to now jump into another relationship? Easier? That's a strange question. Yeah. Let me follow up. I actually brought this up to her. Let me let me. What's the better question? What's the what's the better question? No, it's. Yeah, I understand the question. It's just I was making plans like I was settling in for the long haul. Like I was looking for a mini trailer, camper trailer to put on the back of the truck and go visit family. I was looking to remodel my cabin like I was. I have these five kids and I'm helping their dad raise and I'm like, okay, this stinks. I am lonely, but I'm settling in. And so it's disruptive in the best way. That's my answer. My mindset has had to do a 180 and everything that I was starting to plan and do has been disruptive, disrupted, but in a really wonderful way. And so now her and I are just kind of scrambling through what's next steps, you know what I mean? And Crystal? of loneliness that you feel with your spouse being just suddenly and tragically taken from you is devastating. And so it doesn't matter how hard this is and how messy this is, the worth of having another companion in your life is 100% worth figuring it out. That's where we are. That's so good. That's so good. Many of you know that my wife, Michael Christopher, had a mantra that she lived by. We've made it our mantra for this podcast, and that is run to the hard, run to the hurt for it's in the greatest heart that God wants to do his greatest work. It's what we're doing with our podcast. We're trying to help people run to the heart and let God do an amazing work in their life. But we've also started a foundation, the Michael Foundation, in which we not only want to help serve people emotionally, but we want to meet some people's needs. We know that in some of the toughest and hardest circumstances there's financial needs. And so I'm going to ask you folks, if you go to our website, runtothehard.com forward slash give, there's a place where you can actually give to the Michael Foundation. And we want to help people in need. We want to help people who are stuck in this awful spot in life. And so do that for us. But then more importantly, we're going to thank you ahead of time for praying for our ministry and Supporting us in every way you can now back to the episode I have a question about the kids There are nine kids in this equation. Yes nine five of Michaels Two of Curtis's and two of yours crystal only You know what? What do the kids think? Anybody? Free for all. Oh man, I got tons of stories. Hard stories and good stories. So we'll bounce back and forth because we both got some really good stories about the kids. So I go on a date with her and literally two days later I go on this guy's trip with the boys and some of their friends and we're up at the cabin, we're having a blast, and I'm sneaking out to my truck at 10 p.m. every night to make this phone call. And we're going like midnight, 1 a.m., 1.30, like we're going hard every night. And a couple of the boys, you know, they're having a blast. And I could see them come out of the cabin and they didn't know I was in the truck at first but after a couple nights, a couple of them realized that I'm out in the truck on the phone and they kept it really quiet, they never asked and finally one day I was like, hey have you guys seen me out in the truck? They're like, yeah, we didn't know what you were doing. So I had to confess that I'd been on a date and that I was getting to know this new lady and they're like, this is awesome. The problem was I only told a couple of the boys, I didn't tell Michael's kids the you know, Edward Judah. Yeah, they didn't know until the end of the week They're like Curtis you gotta tell them I'm like, I know I will and so we get in the truck on the way home I was like guys, I got to tell you a story and Edward of all things he goes. So are you gonna marry her? What I love it Blunt like his mom, right? What do you tell, what do you mean? He said, hey, you always tell us, date to marry. So did you go on a date with her? I was like, yes. He's like, so? I mean, seriously, he's just, dude, he's like, I love the marrier. And so that's their first response. And I thought, what would you think about that? He said, man, the more the merrier our home is boring. We need some more people. Dude, I love it. Oh my goodness. Dude, that's such a cool reaction. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. Never even met her and this is his reaction. And so from day one, we jumped in and started having connection points, meeting the kids and so forth. And so they love her and we've taken family votes. All good. Quinn has two new best friends in her daughters. They hang out, they do sleepovers, they you know they are buds. They call each other on the phone like, no way. Yeah. Okay so someone's wondering this like has it been two weeks? Like how long has this been to get to this point. And then Crystal, I wanna hear about your kids and their reaction to this. But first, how long have you guys been like, okay, we're both on the same page? Well, our conversations friend zone was about three weeks and then bam, we both got hit hard. And then we went on our first date. And so from our first date, it's been, you know, two and a half months. Yeah, something like that. But as far as figuring out the kids, we did that fast. We were like, we threw all the kids into the mix immediately because it was like one of those check boxes. Like, is this real? And those are easy things to do. Throw kids at the situation and decide if this is real. And so, you know, Crystal's met everybody. All of my children, all the young, we've hung out, we've done lots of things together. And so, um, so cool. Yeah, go ahead. So cool. Yeah. Crystal, your, your girls. Yeah. Um, so I've had a lot of family. Most of my family live out of state, um, but I've actually had a lot of family in state visiting and like, I'll, I'll never forget the first time grandma gets here, my mom. And I mean, this is just, Curtis and I are like weeks into dating. And she's like, so tell me about Curtis. And my one daughter was like, he's so much like dad. And that was the first I heard one of my kids describe him. And I was like, wow. Yeah. And then I was, I just started thinking about a lot of Curtis's characteristics and a lot of Brandon's characteristics. And I'm like, she's right. He is a lot like dad, you know, and, and then I mean, my, my kids, they love him and have truly from day one. I mean, they're like smirky and giggly and they, they love him around. And there was one night, you know, him and I, we were saying goodbye he had spent the whole day with us it was a Sunday we'd gone to church together and lunch and just we were just kind of spending the whole day together and then we had to say goodnight at the end of the night and my youngest daughter you know we all come inside together and she's like you guys just get married it's so hard to say goodbye. Oh, come on. Yeah, it was, I mean, and like my kids want to be with his kids. It's just, it's, it's been so easy, right? It's been so easy, like, where I thought this would be super hesitant. And so far, I, I've not met that resistance. And I love how much Michael's kids love me. And, you know, it's reciprocated. Like my kids love Curtis and it's, it's so, it's so amazing. So Curtis, let me finish a couple sentences. Let me finish a couple of stories. Cause yeah. There's so many stories going on in my head about the kids because they've been such a huge piece of this puzzle. And the conversations, I forget some of them, but some of them we can't... We've overheard two conversations. One, I was overhearing Quinn talk to her little cousin and aunt on the phone one day and she was like, oh, you guys are going to love Crystal. She's just like mom. And I was like, what? Like just, just things like that. And then we both overheard the girls. They didn't know we could hear them. And her girls were asking Quinn, how long do you think it's going to take Curtis to propose to our mom? And Quinn's going, well, it didn't take him long for my mom. So who knows? It could be really, we're listening to this and we're just dying laughing like it's good. But there's also been really good hard questions. It probably was. Oh, it wasn't a week before after Quinn knew and she she came in kind of teary eyed. She said, hey, does this mean you're going to start taking pictures of mom down?" I was like, oh my goodness. No, sweetie, no, absolutely not. And I remember sharing that with Crystal and then both of our kids, her daughters, and Quinn at one point came and said, do you love Crystal more than you love mom? And I was like, no. And Crystal had a great response when your daughters asked that. Go ahead and share that. Yeah, because they asked the same thing, do you love Curtis more than dad? And and I said, you know, when I had my first kid, you know, Olivia, and then immediately had Madison, I loved them both and I loved them both big, you know, and I was like, it's kind of like when you love a child, like, you love differently. You know, the love of Brandon and the love of your dad is not gone. But I do love somebody else and I love him differently. But it's just it's truly a picture of God's love, like God's love is huge. huge and our hearts are able to love more than more than one person and so yeah that's I kind of had to put it in a child's perspective of yeah yeah I told you Chris that you know it's weird being in love with two people at the same time and you were like dang what a yeah what a what a statement, right? That is, what a statement. But again, Crystal, I think you exemplify what happens when you're in this deep grief and this deep heart, but then realizing God's orchestrating this. And so you're not letting any of your fleshly jealousy or anything get in the way. You're just like, I have grace for this because I know how he feels and again we said all the time this ministry would not exist had Michael Christopher not been diagnosed with cancer and passed away in such a short time and had it had she not been the person that she was on this earth for as long as she was you know this ministry wouldn't exist we wouldn't be on this podcast and so who is being impacted by this like this was not the plan we had but this was the plan that God had somehow and we have to sit in that and realize that God brings good from it. But again, your graceful answer behind that and I know I know Curtis feels the same with with with Brandon. Like that's so it's so powerful and I think it gives people a lot of hope for love after loss. So let me ask you this question, Crystal. You mentioned this is easy for the kids and I gotta think that comes from a place that your kids have gone through just unimaginable hard and they've matured. They're probably years above their peers just with the hard things they've experienced. That's probably where it comes from, I would assume. But I know there's some logistical issues here too that you guys have to deal with, right? I mean, you're what, 40 minutes north of Columbus, or north of Curtis, maybe an hour, something like that. Okay, which is crazy, you guys are so close. But I mean, life has to change a little bit. There are things you guys have to practically work through now logistically, if this all happens. So what are the concerns? That would be awesome to answer, because I know people are like, okay, it can't all be perfect. Yeah, no, that's true. And that's where, you know, Curtis and I, we talk about that all the time of how just hard this is and messy this is. And, you know, my life is really, really stable and good. And then you throw in a mix of an outlier that's not in my zip code. And I'm like, oh, how does this work? You know, shortly after Curtis and I met, I was actually at my church and someone was praying for me. They were just talking about how they had this vision that God had this really long path ahead and that each step we took, that step was lit up. It was just about being on the step we were on right now and that God just kept lighting the step with each step that we took forward. And I'm really holding that promise that God is giving us the direction. We pray for that together continuously because it is a lot to think about. I described it to Curtis just probably just this week how I feel like our lives are like a zipper and we've at least put the clink in and we're starting to zip it up. We're trying to put those pieces together of making this life come into unity because we both have a lot of moving parts and pieces. We know that His and I's love is deep, it's genuine, and it's real, and we have all of these moving parts and pieces But we are the strong steadfast unity right now that we're just gonna figure it out and it's not easy. It's not easy Yeah, yeah. Hmm. So the devil's advocate would say well, it's only been two and a half months, right? They would be like well guys, I'm sure you're gonna deal with some things So, you know, it's only been two and a half months, but I know that there's gotta be these waves of days of like, okay, hey, this isn't gonna work. Oh, this is gonna work, et cetera. So that has to be a thing, right, at this point. And, you know, what can you say about someone who would dive into this and feel the same way you guys feel, but knowing like, okay, I know, I know there's more of this rollercoaster to come. How can you prepare them for the things you've already experienced? Curtis? I'm going to go first. Oh, I wanted to go first. I have a better answer. I know it. I love it. I was having a moment. And just so you understand who I'm dating, it was the best answer ever because I needed it. I'm a coach. I know when we need a swift kick in the butt and she's like, you need to grow up. You're being a little boy right now. Let's go. Cause I was having that moment of like, this is too hard. Like how in the world are we going to do this? And I was trying to take it all on myself. And my brain was hurting with this idea of how is this going to work? And honestly, she's the one who's had to kind of reground me in the fact like, listen, God brought us together. Like he's got this figured out. And she brought to me that whole prayer of one step at a time, you know, one, one step is going to be lit up at a time and yeah, triggers, triggers and the emotional roller coaster. It's real. Like it's, it's real. In fact, last week, I didn't know I was so off. She pointed it out to me. She said, you're, you're not the same today. What's going on? I'm like, I don't know. And she said, well, you know, you're in the time frame when Michael was starting to go to the hospital and stuff. I was like, yeah, I know. And she's like, well, what is today? True story. I looked at my calendar and it was the day two years ago that we got the news. And she was like, you're off today, something's wrong. My brain didn't know it, but my body knew it. And so that just gives you an idea of how the two of us are working through even anniversaries and dates and our body is feeling the things from the past. And so, you know, having lived it, both of us, it's interesting how we can catch those things between the two of us. And so you've got, I'm just painting a picture for you. So you've got this burden of trying to figure out what next steps are and what the future looks like. And yet you're dealing with all of what we've been through, you know, the grief, it doesn't, hasn't gone away. If somebody's out there going, Oh, you're in love, like, this is amazing. It doesn't take the past away. It's this ball of grief and love and happiness and sadness all bound together, rolling down the road, and you have this emotion of happy, sad, happy, sad, happy, sad, happy, sad. Like I don't know how else to describe it. That's our life. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You talked about time. And so with time, when I hit the one year anniversary of Brandon dying, I was like, how has it been a year? This feels so raw and so acute. It feels like this just happened. And a year, you know, in our brain sounds long, but it felt literally like this just happened to me. And it still just felt so fresh. And then you take Curtis and I's relationship, and I mean within two weeks we were like, how has it only been two weeks? Like this is bizarre. I feel like I've known you forever. And you know it just really depicted to me how different time can feel at different moments in your life. Like when him and I first met and really started connecting and going deep, we were, we just felt like time was like the word sounded so short, but the feeling and the depth seemed so long. long, but flip it on its side and you know, you put that into grief and it's still even though like days had gone on and time has gone on to where a lot of people would think, oh, you're you should be moved past this that you're you're at a year, you know, and it still feels raw like your heart is still just ripped apart. Like it's still a cute feeling. Yeah. Yeah. So time's kind of irrelevant. Yeah. Hmm. It's so good, guys. I'm going to ask you a question you didn't expect me to ask. You ready? Let's talk about, okay, so Crystal, how long has it been since Brandon passed away? How many years? Two? No, we're at 17 months. So next month is a year and a half. Okay. Curtis is six months almost to the day ahead of me. Okay. Got it. So we're between one and two years for both of you since your spouses have passed away. Both of you follow Jesus. Okay. There's a reality that I think is deeply practical that I think people want to know. And Curtis, I know you're a leader, man. How do you set boundaries? Not being married and being in a relationship again. I'm serious. How do you set boundaries, not being in a relationship and making sure that you are, you know, biblically leading Crystal when it's been hard. It's been a couple of years for you guys, you know, being with your spouse and just having that normal frequency. Sure. Oh, yeah, we have them. Absolutely. You know, I get a hotel if I'm going to stay in the area over the weekend. You know, we have to set those boundaries. We have to we have to set the physical boundaries because we are both. We both have touch as a love language, 100%. Like we found that out like almost immediately, like, oh my word, this is going to be hard. Yeah, yeah. So it's talked about on a regular basis and we have to follow the guidelines that we would parent with. You know, if we were pairing teenagers or whoever, that's, we have to follow the same guidelines. And so, you know, it also hurts the timeline because in our brains were like, well, we should wait, you know, some time, let these things figure it out. But then our, our physical is, this is like, let's get married right now. Oh, sure. Sure. Yeah. So yeah, it's real. That's good. That's good. I like that. The same boundaries you would set as a parent. That's a really good answer. Well, that's a really good answer. It's also, I mean, I 100% know that God has brought us together and, you know, and I choose to honor God with that gift that he's brought. That's good, guys. That's good. I knew you wouldn't expect that. I know. Oh my gosh. People are thinking it, right? A good host tries to answer the questions people are thinking, so I think that's a wonderful answer. Guys, as we conclude this episode, Curtis, I'd like for you to share what about Crystal draws you in that both reminds you of Michael and then two-part question that is something different, right? That draws you in. And Crystal, same thing, I'll let you think about it. Well, our spouses set the bar really high. And so I remember, and I think I even shared this once, a friend of mine, one of her friends asked her and said, do you think Curtis will ever get remarried again? And she responded by saying, I don't know who could ever fill Michael's shoes? And it cracked me up hearing it from the outside, but then I internalized that and I was like, she's right. Like, who's, who's gonna be better than my wife? You know what I mean? And so when Crystal and I started talking, we became friends very fast. And there was several things that made it so easy to become friends with her was we made each other laugh. The first conversation we ever had, we belly laughed. And I was like, oh my word, I haven't done that in so long. And it felt so good to laugh. Like she's funny. Like we have cracked each other up. That's such a big deal. And the second thing is that time didn't seem to matter. The thing that Michael and I had, as far as we could talk for hours and hours and hours, we did the same thing. Like we, in those first couple of weeks, once we started talking, we were talking for hours. And it wasn't this, you know, I'm an impatient guy and it was like, okay, that's enough. I got to go. Right? Because we were connecting so deeply and had so many things to share that the hours just seemed to go by and three, four hours ago by and I'd be like, oh my word, it's so late, we gotta go to bed. Like I've got stuff to do in the morning, you know what I mean? And then it was like, oh, 30 minutes later, we're still on the phone. And so, you know, she made me laugh. We had unlimited things to talk about. And we still do, we're a couple of months in and we still talk, seriously. We don't do it all at once at night now, but we talk at least three, three, four hours a day. And it starts first thing in the morning, multiple times during the day. And then we end at night, probably another hour at night. We just, we talk a lot. We just have so many things we want to share and catch up and talk about life. And, and so those things are so similar in the relationship that I have with Michael. strength and her relationship with Jesus, I mean from the very first text. This woman sent me a scripture. She said, I don't know you. She said, I'm proud of what you and Chris are doing. And the very first text she sends me a scripture and says, I just wanted to encourage you with this. And I was like, whoa, that's so powerful. And ever since that very first text, she continues to send me devotionals. She continues to send me worship song. She continues to inspire and help me and push me. And when I'm down, she's the one who's got her thumb on my back saying, nope. You got stuff to do, you've got kids to take care of, you've got work to do. And now that we're dating, she's like, what's your checklist for the day? Cause I'm going to check on you at the end of the day to make sure you got it done. Oh, I love it. I love it. Yeah. So, you know, we're not going to, I'm not going to compare her to Michael, but the things that I fell so deeply in love with Michael with are the same things that I've fallen so deeply in love with Crystal. I love that. Crystal's different, but has so many of those qualities. And yeah, it's really, really good. That's awesome. Crystal, you're up next. Yeah, I think Curtis's answer, I'm not going to compare. But you know, my pastor, it was probably easily six months in, you know, he was just checking in, how are you doing? And I was just like, you know, Brandon set the bar so high. I'm like, I'm not going to settle. Like I don't, I don't need to just find someone to date because I need that love space filled. And Brandon was such a incredible husband, dad, son, brother, the list goes on and on. He was just, everything he did, he did it with excellence. I felt like it was going to be impossible to find someone else that would even compare. My cousin one day was like, you might want to lower your standards. And I'm like, no way. But yeah, not only has Curtis met my standards, he's adding to it because we both have this this extreme loss that we are part of, like, we're really helping each other heal. Yeah, the laughter part that Curtis was talking about, Brandon was like one of the funniest guys like I knew, like he was always cracking us up. And I just remember how refreshing that was when Curtis and I started laughing and until like, yeah, I have the laugh that literally leaves your stomach in pain because your muscles are like overworked. And it's this feeling how refreshing that was when we were laughing that hard together and being like, wow, this feels so good. But yeah, I love the integrity that Curtis has, just how he cares for me. He cares for my kids. Yeah, a lot of similarities and a lot of differences too. Here's a question that I have that I think wraps this one up well. Okay, so Curtis, Crystal, many people are listening or watching this who are where you all were a few months back. I lost my person. I'm thinking about them all the time. I love them. I miss them. Can't imagine, I can't imagine being with anyone else. Curtis, what do you say to the husband who lost his wife who doesn't believe that there's love after loss in terms of, yeah, just what do you say to that husband? Well, one of the connections that Crystal and I both have is that we've been both divorced and we were in the same space after divorce where we're like, we don't want to mess this up. I don't want to mess this up. So, God, you're just going to have to bring me somebody. Like, so we've practiced, I've practiced this. Like, God, I'm not going to join the dating game. I'm not going to jump in. I'm not going to do some online whatever. Like I'm just not. If you have somebody for me, you're literally going to have to drop them in my lap. And he did. He gave me Michael. And I did the same exact thing because I remember, you know, number one, my heart and my brain aren't even capable of dating. Like they're just not there. Like there's not even a draw. Like I'm desperately missing my wife, but I don't have a draw towards somebody. You know what I mean? But I have prayed the same prayer. Lord, you're gonna have to just drop somebody. If you have anybody, I'm not going to go looking. I'm not going to go dating. I'm just not. And he did. That's what I would say. Don't go chase, don't go look. If you are a believer and you trust Jesus with everything, you can trust him with this too. I love that. Crystal, what do you say to the wife who lost her husband and is feeling the same way? Well, that's honestly, that's really hard to answer because everybody's journey with grief is so personal and it's hard to know what space people are in. I do agree with the like, you know, don't just date to date, especially if you have kids. Like that's just a roller coaster in and of itself. When, when this happened with Curtis and I, there was no denying it that there was something there. And so, because him and I were, were both in a space of not pursuing a relationship. I honestly was like, I got to just get my kids through school, you know, like, let's get them a little older. And then I can focus on myself. So this was beautiful that something happened out of my timeline. But yeah, don't don't give God a timeline. And and also just know that you're not without love. Even if you don't have another relationship in your life, find other relationships. I was in a space where I was just seeking out new things and new friendships and new relationships. Not a love relationship, but I was trying to connect and just create new community because when you when you do lose Your spouse it changes your friendships and it changes your relationships and so I was in a space of just Making new making new friendships and making new relationships. And so you continue to press in with that Love that. That's good Curtis crystal found you and was so moved by your prayer at the end of episode 7. So I think it's appropriate that I ask you to pray this episode out for those that are in a very similar place as to where you guys were. And so I'll ask you to close us out in prayer and we'll say goodbye. Okay. Lord, we come before you today humbled and grateful. We come before you thanking you for your love and your mercy and your grace on us. And Lord, I know that there are husbands and wives and children out there that have lost a mom, a dad, a wife, a husband, and Lord, they are broke. And I can say that because we've lived it. We've been there and we're still there. And so for those people, Lord, I just come before you, number one, asking you to come alongside them and put your loving arms around them, hug them, let them know that you're there. Let them feel your presence and know that they are loved deeply and that you love them so much that you sent your only son to die for them so that they could be with you for eternity. Lord, there's no greater love. And so let them feel that and understand that you are such a good, good father. Lord, I do pray for those specifically that He would set somebody aside, that in the right a child, a new mom, give a husband a new best friend wife, and that you'd give a wife a provider. Lord, I pray that you would come alongside these families, comfort them, guide over them, protect them. Lord, thank you for what you've done in our life. And obviously, there's so much more to do, and we don't have this all figured out. But Lord, we give it to you again today, just like we have every single day, that you would honor it, bless it, and lead the way. And so, Lord, once again, we thank you for who you are. Thank you for what you've done, what you're going to do. We ask these things in your name. Amen. Amen. Thanks to you both. Hey, thanks so much for listening to the podcast. Guys, please head to ratethispodcast.com forward slash RTTH to rate the podcast. And if you have not subscribed to our YouTube channel, please do so. And finally, third thing here, finally, please check out the details behind the Michael Foundation in the link below. We'd love your support on this foundation in helping families stuck in grief with financial expenses. expenses. Thanks again and we'll see you next time.

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