Ep 19: Grief Lessons Two Years After My Wife Died

What would you say to the person who's a couple years into this and they really Haven't seen the evidence that this tragedy has presented any purpose Welcome to the run to the heart podcast where we're here to remind you that God doesn't promise us a life free from suffering But he always brings healing and restoration on the other end. Our goal is to inspire you to face life's trials with courage and trust in God's plan. And oh yeah, run to the hard that God allows. Welcome back to the Run to the Hard podcast, everybody. I'm Chris Farrell. I'm with my good friend, Curtis Christopher. Curtis, welcome back to the podcast, man. Thank you, sir. Let's make it happen today. So, this is a unique episode because you just celebrated, if that's a word, the two-year anniversary of your wife, Michael's, passing. And so, on this episode, we just want to breathe out the things you've learned over these past two years of navigating your own grief, and really just help listeners understand that you've been through, because you and I have had so many conversations, you've been through practical things you've learned, emotional things you've learned, spiritual things you've learned, and I think this is going to be really valuable to those who have experienced grief and they're like, yeah, but what happens a couple of years later? So my first question to you, man, is, you know, walk us through what the difference is from this two year anniversary to year one. Well we just celebrated yesterday actually and so let me just let me start by talking about what's happened in the last two weeks. There's a couple books that are out there that basically you know the titles are your body knows or your body keeps score and I've not read it but I've had several people tell me about it and kind of walk me through the steps of what's probably going to happen and it's crazy because like clockwork about two weeks ago I got the sickest I've been in a long time and usually I can catch the flu or whatever I mean the kids are bringing bugs home throat, a couple three days done. But for two weeks straight, I mean I finally had to go to the doctor, get some antibiotics, like I was a mess and I'm like, oh my word, two weeks ago my wife goes to the hospital. Think about that, that's crazy and I think about that title of that book that your body does and dates are coming in. I didn't expect that. So just to be fair and tell people out there that give yourself some grace, give yourself some time because you don't know what you're going to feel, you don't know what your body's going to go through and I would make sure that you've got some time off scheduled, that you've got some family or something, because it is going to hit you out of nowhere. The difference between year one and year two, it's so funny that you asked that because I woke up this morning thinking about the first year where it, the first year goes so fast, like time is not a thing anymore. It feels like forever, but And I remember, you know, the first one just snuck up on me. It's like, um, you ever go down the road and you're just completely brain numb. You're not really thinking of anything. You're just driving. And then a deer or something jumps out in front of you. Sure. Oh yeah. You know, it's like, wow, this thing just happens. You know, your adrenaline's rushing, you're, you're traumatized for a split second, right? I don't know if that's what other people experience, but you're one, it just sneaks up on you and it hits you hard, it kind of smashes you in the face because you don't know what to expect, you're kind of in this numb space, you're just trying to get through life and then BAM, this That was rough. And then we just held on for dear life to try to get through the day, to get through the weekend. It's kind of like in the snow when you hit an icy spot and you just hold on for dear life. Like, oh Lord, get me through this, right? It feels like that. Like, I just am holding on to get through that. Yesterday, we knew it was coming. I had been sick for several days. The kids have been sick off and on. I've had the kids in and out of the house a lot over the last couple of weeks and we knew it was coming, but I think of it this way. So imagine you're driving along and you know that deer jumps out in front of you, there's this startle but you're kind of in a brain fog. What you don't know is there might have been 8 or 10 deer along the side of the road and you just didn't know it because you're just numb, you're in a fog. Well when year 2 comes around, imagine this, you're driving down that same road and you're a little bit more alert and you're seeing things that you didn't see before and all of a sudden you're like, Oh my word, there's a deer. Oh my word, there's another deer. And your senses are a little bit more alert and there's more, it's more traumatic. You, you see and are sensing and seeing more of the danger and the things around you when you just passed 10 deer and then the one finally jumps out in front of you. It's a weird sensation because you're driving down the same stretch of road but now you're seeing all the dangers, you're seeing all the things that potentially can kind of come out out of nowhere. That's kind of what it feels like in year two is that your senses are a little more alive, you're knowing that it's coming but you can't stop it from coming, you can't not feel or see the trauma or the things that are going to happen. And so it's still a sense of holding on and getting through it, but it's more of like, oh man, you know, how are the kids going to feel? What are we going to do? And you begin to be a little more proactive. So I had planned this for, I don't know, a week or two where I was like, okay, what are we going to do different this year when we go to the cemetery? Because we're going to go. That's not an option. We're going to go. And so right after school, I had all the kids come straight home right after school yesterday, and we had bought some paint and some brushes and had a pile of rocks. And so we kind of had an arts and crafts time. We painted rocks. We wrote words on them. We put initials on them and then went over to the cemetery last night and we placed memory rocks on the headstone. Had our initials on them, had words like faith and love and things like that. And so this year I planned it out a little more, like we're going to make it more of a fun and personal project. You know, it's one thing to take flowers to a cemetery. I love to do that and I do it often, but they're going to die. You know, the wind's going to blow them away. This is something that we can do for a long time we can create these little memory rocks and take them over there anytime we want and so I want to do something different. I was told by several people that sometimes year two is harder than and I didn't understand why, but it's more of you, your senses are a little more alive and so you feel it a little bit longer, you anticipate it coming and you either are gonna hide in the dark and just kind of try to avoid it or you're going to you know kind of hit it headlong and plan it and kind of work through it. And so I wrote a little bit, I posted some things, I tried to involve the kids in a little project, just trying to celebrate mom. Yeah. Just another way to kind of keep her memory alive, you know? Yeah. So you chatted with me recently about about taking charge in this season. You mentioned how it's important for those who are grievers to begin to take charge at this stage in the game. Can you unpack that a little? Sure. So two years in, you know, I get to watch others who have gone through it either ahead of me or they're behind me or they're similar timelines that I'm in. And quickly you begin to see those who seem to be doing it better, dealing with grief well. I know that's a strange word but it's the only one I can I can use and it seems like as I watch those who seem to be doing it well, they've taken charge of this thing. Instead of just sitting and waiting, waiting for friends to come invite me out, waiting for family to step up and realize that I have a tremendous need, waiting for my pastor or waiting from the church. It seems like those who are doing it well, they're taking charge. There's one lady I follow pretty regularly. She, from day one, started creating friend groups, I noticed they started doing these like trips, like bunch of them get together, jump on a plane and go somewhere, jump on a bus and go somewhere. And it's it's widows. It's it's people who understand each other. It's not outsiders. She figured out right away that it's got to be people who understand and can sympathize and empathize with you and know exactly where you're at. But they're they're doing stuff. And I appreciated watching that, thinking, okay, so there is this level of taking charge. And then there's also the ability to create some boundaries. So grieving and grievers attract grievers, if you know what I mean. So as I watch her then I begin to see others as well who there's a strength in taking charge of my situation. I'm not going to sit and just wait for something to happen. I'm going to seek somebody out and if it doesn't work, it's fine. I move on to the next person. But even finding a walking partner, somebody who I can go for a walk with, typically another griever who you can relate to, somebody that you know you can talk to on the phone or pick up the phone and again not everybody is going to align and be that person for you but the ability to keep trying, to not just give up but keep trying to and breathe your stories out almost simultaneously like just trying to understand where you're going. Sometimes it's better too that I've noticed if it's somebody ahead of you or behind you because it's this ability to say this is what you could anticipate coming, you know, one person to the other I'm finding that to be very helpful is to take charge of the friendships to take charge of the activities to take charge of of The things that I can and not just sit and wait That's that's probably the worst spot and probably the place where a lot of people get stuck is just waiting. I'm waiting for somebody to come rescue me. I'm waiting for somebody to help me out of this stuck spot instead of just taking charge of the situation. I find that people when pushed to the brink like this are way stronger than they think. And to have somebody breathe that into you, that's a big deal. Yeah. Yeah. So Curtis, you are talking about how there are people who are, you know, there are strength in numbers of people who are like-minded who have been through similar things. So we're talking about this woman that you know who has created the Widow Group. They've gone on trips together, and they've built community. So that's all fine and good. I think a question that a listener probably has is, what type of friendship am I looking for now that I've been grieving over the past couple of years? The fact of the matter is people have said, oh, I'm so sorry for your loss. You have that label on you of you've lost your spouse or you've lost your son or daughter or whoever. And that's what people know you by. But now not every friend can relate with you and say, oh, I've experienced deep grief too. So what type of friends should they be looking for? Gotcha. Say, yeah, that's, that's interesting. You ask it that way because there are categories. There are deep friends that you and I have grown up with, people that we know that deeply care for us and they check on us on a regular basis. And that's not a bad thing. There is some healing in having people check on you. That's helpful. And then you have the pastor types. They have mentored and worked with a lot of people who are grieving, who have lost loved ones and things like that. And so it's not a bad thing. You know, I've got some tremendous pastor friends who check on me regularly, but it's the person or two who, they've literally walked your shoes. They've walked this path. They know what you're feeling. They know what anniversaries do to you. They know, man, I guess the best word I could use, they know how broke you really are. And it's also hard to talk about. And so to talk with somebody who has been through it and understands the level of brokenness, it's almost like an unspoken language. There's some things that you can talk about. There's some things you don't even need to talk about because you just know. You just know. And I know those are hard to go find But they're out there Yeah, but they're so So in most cases I'm gonna connect deeper with someone who who knows what it's like who is gonna be able to empathize With me because they've literally been there. Yeah now When we talk about friendships in general. If someone has not been through this deep grief, am I just like, I'm not in a place of my life where I could probably even connect with you on a deep level? Or are there pieces of them that I'm going to see like, oh, maybe this person can be a support system and how would I know whether they are or not? Like, what signs could I look for as I'm trying to develop new relationships? As a Christian, it's our job, I mean even as non-Christians, it's our job to keep reaching out and checking in on our friends who have been through trauma. It just is. So that needs to happen no matter what. It's, again, it is part of the healing process. Receiving a text, you know, from a good friend. How you doing? Just checking in. Do you need anything? It's important. It's still part of the whole formula. It's still important. So you and I have talked a lot about what does an outside person do for their friend who's going through grief? And the answer is just keep trying. Don't get offended if you don't receive a text back. Don't be offended if they don't take you up on a dinner date or a lunch date or a coffee date. Like don't be offended by it. But don't be afraid to keep reaching out. That's super important because I'll be honest with you that the brain fog, the memory thing in grief, it is real. I've had so many people text or call or leave a message or an email and it'll be a week later and I'll find it I'm like, oh man, I am so sorry. I remember that you texted me, I totally forgot about it and I just forgot. And so you can't be offended if you don't hear back from a griever because our brain is mush. And it just is. So that's important. It's still important to keep doing it. So the question was, if I'm someone who's gone through deep grief and I'm seeking friendships, I'm ready to take charge. You mentioned take charge. So I'm ready to take charge. What should I be looking for in a friend to? Is it fair to say that I should be pretty picky about who I let around? Oh, sure. Oh, yeah, because like I said, grievers kind of attract grievers. Grievers attract hard stories. Grievers attract. But there is a difference. And I mean, this just happened. I mean, just a few days ago, a friend was like, you're not going to believe this. Somebody wanted to go to lunch with me and I hadn't been to lunch with them a long time. And they literally sat there and wanted to talk about their dead dog the whole time. And I was like, what? Yeah, like I just lost my husband. And that's what they wanted to talk about. And so, yeah, you got to be careful because I was like, well, what are you going to do with that? And she's like, I'm going to, you know, put a halt to that like that was crazy like how do you not so so there are there are yeah there are people you gotta you gotta say no that's not going to help me at all yeah so I think there is a little bit of trial and error in this but you know I've got some really really good grieving friends who we've opened up a window to say, hey, we're available. There are some times when somebody will say, hey, are you available right now? I just have some questions, need to get some stuff off my chest. I was like, absolutely. They're good conversations, they're healthy conversations. Sometimes it's just a few texts. Sometimes it's a phone call. You've opened that door to that person. I've probably got two or three that there's just a real comfortableness of hey I can trust this person I can trust the relationship. I can trust the vulnerability of their story and my story and so What about the know-it-alls like those people exist? I mean like I know someone's listening and watching this thing like man this friend is great But again, this person lost their dog and they keep circling back to their dog. And I'm talking about my child. You know, what bold boundaries can grievers say, you know what, I'm sorry, I can't. Can you give any practical and bold advice to someone who's grieving, who's very frustrated with the know-it-all? Hmm, I mean, I just put them on pause. I do it kindly. Just passively, just stop wanting to hang out? Okay. Yeah, I'm fairly kind for the most part, but yeah, there's people in my life that I've put on pause because I know that the relationship will end up being way more one-sided and more drama. And I'm like, I don't need drama, right? So I can put that relationship on pause and be like yeah I might not respond to a text for a day or two or I might not return that phone call and again Well as I'm taking charge, I'm learning to be I'm learning to be okay with I Care, but I don't care what they think like this is me I need to really really focus on what are good and healthy Relationships in my life right now as I'm working through this and I can put some people on pause and that's okay. Yeah, I think that's good advice. I was, the reason I ask that question is because I think sometimes there are times where we should have the uncomfortable conversation to get to the root but then you're right there are people who are just the way they are like they grew up in that type of environment typically, typically people, no offense to people like this, but typically people who don't have siblings are way more, just socially don't get it, right? It's like, it happens. And so I think overall there needs to be a sense of self-awareness for those people. But I was just curious what you would think about someone, say like, hey, let's have the uncomfortable conversation with them, or, you know what, I'm going through enough. I'm just gonna kinda like let that boat float down. Okay, that makes sense. That makes sense. And so it feels like we're moving into boundary talk. And so talk to me about the boundaries that you're putting around you and your family. You mentioned earlier, you know, there's a lot of trying to travel and things of that nature and normalizing life. But what boundaries are you putting around you and the kids to make sure that you're protecting yourself, if you will? I told somebody the other day, I said, it's okay to be selfish in grief and they're like what do you mean I said well it was a one person in particular who's just super kind super self-aware super respectful of people you know never gonna say no never gonna turn down a you know what I mean that kind of person I was like whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa like you have a you have You have this grief card and you don't play it enough, if I can say it. They're like, what? I'm like, no, you do. I said, we have this grief card right now that we can be a little bit selfish. We can be selfish with our time. We can be selfish with, I need some personal space, I need some personal time, I need to shut the world off, or I need to pour into my kids. got to pour into my kids. They need me the most right now. Or, you know, narrowing down that circle of friends to this group where it feels manageable. What I feel is that grievers attract other grievers and all of a sudden this this bubble starts to grow, starts to grow, starts to grow, and then it starts to get out of control. And they start to go into these panic modes. They start to go into, I don't know what to do about this. I don't know. And if they were healthy, the healthy version of themselves, this wouldn't be that complicated of a problem. They would have been able to be like, nope, I can cut that out. I can cut that out. But in trauma and grief, everything's heavy. The smallest of details becomes really heavy and all of a sudden you find yourself in this space where I can't make decisions. I can't think straight. Even though this would have been really easy for me to cut this off a long time ago, it doesn't feel easy now. It feels like that's a really big deal to cut that thing out of my space right now to give me the space that I need to grieve, to get healthy, to work on healing. Does that make sense? Yeah, man. Yeah. And so I've given at least three different people in our conversations You know, we've met a lot of people through doing this podcast and I've given at least three people permission to be selfish Mission to cut somebody out of their life permission to shut this down for a while permission to say it's okay To not go to work today It's okay to say, I didn't see this coming and I need to speak up about it and be like, I'm in worse shape than you know. Like I'm really broke and I just need this space. And so I'm experiencing and feeling these things myself, but I'm also, as I'm talking and listening to other people's stories, realizing that there's some people out there who really have a hard time saying no, who don't know how to create boundaries in their life. Where do you think that comes from? Why? Why are they having a hard time saying no? Dude, this brokenness, I don't know how to explain it. Nothing's firing correctly. What used to be so easy of a decision to make, what used to be so easy is to process information that the wires aren't connected. I don't know how, I mean I'm just telling you, I'm being really honest with you that there's a brokenness and grief that's really hard to explain. Things aren't firing right. I'm two years out and I think my memory is worse now than it was a year ago. It's crazy retelling the same story to somebody. They're like, hey, and I'm like, you don't understand. I don't remember. You know, we do this podcast and I have to go back and listen to them two and three times because I can't remember what I said. Like things are not firing. And so, you know, and that we could go into a whole other conversation about employees and employers and how much grace we need to give people in grief and all that kind of stuff. But I know, anyways. Well, help me with this. To your point about things, it would appear that things just feel different in every way. And so, perfect example, we have hurricanes flooding through the United States right now. Western North Carolina devastated, Florida devastated by hurricanes. And what's funny is we're all so busy hustling and bustling, and then we hear about these hurricanes and these deaths and all these traumatic things, and it puts life in perspective for a split second. And so I wonder if you can kind of let us in Curtis's brain on how do you look at the world differently now that you're two years into this from a perspective side of things that we could understand. Curtis doesn't just wake up and hustle and bustle Curtis's in deep reflection or whatever Whatever comes to mind. This is different from what it was two years ago. Well, you definitely look at the world differently you Death becomes a part of life where when you haven't experienced tremendous trauma through death you just you know You're just going through life going through life going through life help helping as you can where you can, but death gives perspective to all that's going around. And I hurt for all the people who have been losing loved ones through all of this season of disaster that's going on right now because, you know, there's a lot of hurt right now, a ton of hurt all around us. And you begin to pick up on hurt. It's interesting that you can go into a grocery store now and see people different, you can see hurting people, you can go to a restaurant and if you will become vulnerable and open about your own situation, you can't believe how many people will share with you. When you sit down and tell somebody, you know, I lost my wife. Or when they ask about the kids or the family or your life and you just share with them, I can't tell you how many times somebody will say, yeah, I just lost my dad. Yeah, I just buried my mom. Yeah, it's unbelievable. This thing of grief attracts hurt, which means your senses become a lot more alert to those situations and people. So you just, you really, really take a hard look at yourself and you take a hard look at those around you and you begin to have much more of appreciation for eternal things. Some of the greatest preachers, the greatest evangelists, the greatest pastors, the greatest lay people in the church. I mean if you hear their stories something traumatic happened in their life that changed their perspective on the world and about eternity forever. It's just fact. Yeah, that's so powerful man. Now that's so, it's so true. So many Christians go through the ringer of suffering. It happens all the time. And I love what you said about looking through things with more of an eternal perspective. And I wonder how that's impacted. So you tell me this all the time. You're like, I don't believe that God wastes these tragedies. I think that God has a purpose on the other end for these things. And I think you have permission to say it, Curtis. I don't, right? So since I didn't lose my wife, I can't go to you and say, oh Curtis, everything happens for a reason. I think that's messed up. But you, you have permission to say this. So people know that this run to the hard ministry has started. The Michael Foundation has started as a result of the grief that you've experienced. Losing Michael has now created a foundation where we can support other people with practical steps in their grief, whether it be funerals or you know expenses or getting back on their feet or helping them with lawn mowings and things of that nature. So beauty has come from the ashes of your story. Again what would you say to the person who's a couple years into this and they really haven't seen the evidence that this tragedy has presented any purpose. What would you say to them? Boy, I've got about 10 things floating around in my head. I'm trying to organize my thoughts. Sure. Let's, well, let me start by telling some stories of people that I know. Okay. Okay. One person in particular, a gentleman that I've known for years and years and years, lost his mom when he was a kid. Lost his mom when he was a kid. There was a family, I believe it was a family of five. Their father was super busy, worked multiple jobs, had to hire nannies. The kids chased off the nannies one by one because, you know, it's not mom. And I mean, the stories are kind of funny, but yet they're hard. But when that person found God later on in life, I've known that person at least, I don't know, 27 years. This particular person has such a heart for widows, divorcees, people in the neighborhood. For as long as I've known this person, they've shoveled walks, mowed lawns, taken care of, fixed broken pipes, you know, plunged toilets, whatever. It's a normal part of their life and I can look at their life and trace it back to the fact that this person who lost their own mom at a young age knows what it's like to be in trauma and grief and to be in hardships and to know that there's things that they can't handle. And these are predominantly women that this person helps out on a regular basis, but for all the years I've ever known them, there's always a lawn to mow, there's always a shovel to walk, there's always a walk to shovel, there's always something to do. For year after year after year, I've so many people. So that's just one example of a person who lost their parent at a young age found Jesus and realized, I've got a job to do. There are people who need help. And I've seen that. I've seen pastors who have experienced tremendous, tremendous loss somewhere in their life. And God used that thing and shaped it and put such a burning desire for souls into that person that they've become world-renowned Evangelists who have seen tens of thousands of people saved under their ministries and I could name multiple people that I know personally that that were affected by grief and God used it and is now winning souls for the kingdom because of it. And so I'm just telling you what I've seen. And then I'm reminded of the fact that I have my wife on her dying bed saying, what about my kids? What's going to happen to my kids? And I have to look her in the eye and say, God's got this. No matter what happens, I can trust God, you can trust God that whatever happens, God's got this. And then the fact that God would use me, that God would answer the prayer of so many people about working out this relationship with their father and the fact that I get to continue to be in these kids lives and I get to help train and raise them and teach them how to work and how to care. And it's not easy. It's not. It's a ton of work. But this incredible responsibility of the thing that God placed in my life through this trauma, that I get to help raise and be a part of these kids' lives and help teach them. And there, because of the loss of their mother, I'm telling you, God's going to use it. And so because of what I've seen in the past with others and because of what I know, I can confidently help raise these kids and be a part of their lives because I know God is going to use this for good. I just know it. So good, man. When we talk about God not wasting a tragedy, what do you think is the common denominator of those who there has been purpose on the other end? Is it a matter of just taking charge? Is it prayer? Like, what exactly is it? Because you and I both know, and you've said this before, I'll use your words, that people who go through PTSD or deep grief and loss, they almost become a shell of themselves. And so many of them just kind of hide away. And so, but you, you could have done that, right? You could have grabbed your boat, grabbed your truck, gone to Michigan and just done your thing and then left everybody behind. But what is it about you and others, what's the common denominator that people need to see if they are pulling back and thinking to themselves, like I have nothing to live for. I made a statement early on where I said people are way stronger than they think. I really believe that and we do have an inner strength. We are made in the image of God. God created us. There's some things about our nature, about our characteristics that are God-given but then when you take the Holy Spirit and add that piece to the formula of what God has already birthed and given us in our being. My mind is always in a quandary. I'm broke. I say this all the time. I have some friends that we just can say it. We're like, my brain's broke, my memory's broke, my emotions are broke, I don't feel things the way I used to. Like I'm broke. But there is an inner strength that through the power of the Holy Spirit that we can continue to do and to be even though not everything is making sense, not everything not everything feels right. Like physically I haven't felt good in so long like but yet there's this there's This life is not to be wasted my wife Was such a good mother to these kids She had such a strong faith in the belief system. She was so caring to others above herself That I can't help but want to make sure that those kids It's a purpose beyond ourself. And when we begin to live that purpose out that is beyond us, it's past us, it's into the future. It's like the person who plants a tree, you know, late in their life, and they're never gonna see that tree grow and become its full beauty in their lifetime, right? It's like that, like we're preparing for the future. I had a good life, had a lot of neat things. The Lord's allowed me to do a lot of neat things. It's like my time is over, so where am I going to put all my efforts now? Where am I gonna put all my efforts now? What is lasting? What is forever? What is going to keep going? It's not just the memory of my wife. It's the memory of the fact that she understood that this life is short. We only have so much time on this earth, some more, some less, in her case less. every minute of every day needs to be for a purpose greater and better than our bigger than ourself. That's what I got from my wife. That's what I have to teach her children. That's what I want to teach those around me is that there's so much more than just this. Yeah so it sounds like people who have not taken charge and have not become an active participant in the hard that God's allowed in their lives, are potentially believing a lie. Believing a lie that their life is over and they're just here for time to pass and to die. allowed these hard things because he's teaching us and he's also using us as a vessel to do good, to glorify him and bring purpose from these tragedies, right? Well, let's ask this. Is heaven really real? I have to ask myself this question every day. Yeah. Is heaven real? Even though we don't know a lot about heaven, what we do know about heaven, what's in the scripture? The glory of God is so bright there's no sun needed. The presence of God, streets of gold, pearly gates, Jesus at the right hand of the Father. Do we really believe in this stuff? Do we really believe in an angelic choir that sings holy holy holy? My wife did. And to watch her go from this world to that world with the knowledge of that's where she's going? Grief is real. The Bible talks about grief. We know it's real we know that it wrecks us but the flip side of that coin is if we believe heaven is real like why would we not want our loved one there why would we not want to know that they're experiencing the glory of God forever and what little we know about heaven and people have sung songs and written songs and written poems and written hymns and we have the scriptures to go by. I want to ask my friends who are struggling, like is heaven real? Would your person want to ever come back here? You see I have to start every day out with that because I can be selfish in my, man I wish she was here. I can be selfish that way. It's okay. It's part of grief. But that's a false statement. No I don't want them here. They're in heaven. If I believe heaven's real, I want them there. Then I want to make it to heaven myself. And then I want these children to make it to heaven. And then I want my friends and family to make it to heaven. And so if every day is the starting point of heaven is real, therefore everything in my life has to point to Christ to God and the understanding of this world is not my home that we have a time stamp on our life it could be short it could be long we have no idea but that eternity is our goal in life it begins to bring perspective I can live broke I can live emotionally broke, I can live financially broke, I can live mentally broke, but waking up every day and knowing that that's my ultimate destiny, you will find motivation in that. Yeah, there's a lot of wisdom there man, there really is. Okay, so now you want to challenge people with what exactly? I want to challenge them with the grace. They may not know what to do, they may not have all the pieces, they may not be the widow or the widower that can come alongside, but as a pastor, as a friend, as men who are raising boys, there is a responsibility that we have to those in grief, widows and orphans in particular. And that is what? I had a really good friend tell me about a pastoral conference he was in. And he was basically just telling all the pastors in the audience, he's like, listen, there's such easy practical things that you can do to help people in grief. One is put their date on your calendar. It's that simple. Put the date on the calendar. And when the year rolls around, it's so simple to pick up the phone or send a text or send a letter out. And then when year two comes around, do the same thing. And if they need it by year three, do the same thing. If our pastors and our employers, think about an employer, the hustle and bustle of life. And yet you have this employee who works for you that you want them to be at their best. But if you understand grief and understand that, you know what, this date's on my calendar. I know it's coming up. I want to make sure that I give enough grace to this person where I don't, they don't have to come to me to ask for a day off or for a weekend off. Like I'm going to go to them. I just think this is a great thing for an employer to be able to say, hey, listen, I know this date's coming up, you probably need it off. And if the person says, no, I'm good, you say, no, you need it off. Paid vacation, take it off. Like, just imagine what that would do if employers were like that. Imagine if every pastor had all these dates on their calendars. I don't care how big a church you are. Who cares? Have somebody help you manage your calendar. But can you imagine a letter, a text, a phone call on the day. I got some. Super good. I got some. Past your friends, they didn't forget, they knew. You're too, still get them, right? Yeah. So let's switch the roles now. And having gone through what I've gone through, the kids having gone through what they've gone through, what's their responsibility now? It's my job to teach them to begin to be sensitive to those around them. So I hope that these boys that I'm helping raise become the man that I talked about. That when they get older they're gonna notice the yard that needs mowed, they're gonna notice the sidewalk that needs shoveled, they're gonna notice, right? We have to help come alongside and teach these things too. We've got to teach them as coaches, we've got to teach them as pastors, as youth pastors, as fathers. And you know what? We're gonna talk to a whole bunch of people that don't have fathers. You and I have had that discussion so many times. So, dads, whose family are you going to adopt? Whose boy, whose single mom, whose boy are you going to adopt and take in and begin to help them and train them to become these kind of men in their lifetime, right? So, the responsibility isn't just my four walls. If I have grown up in a church where nobody helped take responsibility for me, the other men in my life, I don't know where I would be. I'm so much who I am because of the men in our church who saw a single mom with a rambunctious boy who needed a lot of guidance and a lot of wisdom and a lot of help and needed to be busy. Like so busy, like so many times I can look back and think about where did I get that idea? Where did I get that thought? Where did I get this motivation? Where did I get this work ethic? And I can literally name you certain men in that church that came alongside this little boy and helped teach me things way more than one single dad probably could have. I'm the recipient of a lot of great dads who poured into this kid. And so we have this bigger responsibility. And I'm really gonna challenge the men who listen to our podcast, man, if you work one job and you come home and you take care of your little four walls, I hope you do it and I hope you do it really, really well. But I'm telling you, your responsibility is so much greater than that. We live in a society that needs you to maybe work two jobs, that needs you to live on less so that you can give more, that you can help buy a used car for the single mom who can't get her kids to school, or you need to spend some money on some groceries or send your wife to the store and buy some gas cards and help the neighbor that can't get around or do what she needs. We have such a bigger responsibility and I'm glad that I'm glad for my upbringing but because I helped because I was raised by a single mom and I had so many men pour into my life it didn't take me long to figure some of those things out. I'll never forget there was a lady not too far from where we lived in town I was in my late 20s and in her car broke down and she couldn't get around, she couldn't get to work, she was getting on rides to work and I just stopped and I said, what's wrong with your car? I happen to be working at the college, this is before you, and a young man that you know, know personally, really good with cars, I said, hey, I need your help. And he said, what do you need? I said, we need to fix this lady's car up, we need to give it a tune up, we need to fix the exhaust, we need to fix and we we polished it, we cleaned it, we cleaned it out, we got it running good, good working order, took it back to her. I didn't have to do that, but it's it's what we do. We're Christian men. We see a need and we go make it happen. And not only that, I got to get my Sunday school involved. So I went to church that Sunday. I said, hey, I need your help. I could have done it myself, but I decided to put it out to my Sunday school class and I said here's what we're doing you guys might help me do a little offering and let's raise some money and let's get her car fixed all up for and we raised like six seven hundred dollars in one Sunday school class that we could dump into this car and we we gave it a tune-up and oil change fix some tires put some put some exhaust on it I mean we had a little bit of money we did this we dropped this off and I said ma'am it wasn't just me my friends helped my Sunday school class helped, we wanted you to get your car back in working order. She just sat on the side of the road and just bawled. Single mom, I know those two kids. She died not too long ago of a heart attack and I still know her kids. I still see them around town every once in a while. But we left an impact on that family. One, that's one story, one story. I could tell you so many more. You know, when my first wife and I, when we were healthy and we were doing things well, there was a sensitivity to those around us because her parents had raised her that way too. But I would come home and I'd be tired, it'd be a long day. I remember once she said, hey, I need you to go to a friend's house. They have a computer that's not working right. They literally need their computer to do their job. And if they don't have their computer they can't do their job and I was like okay get in my car drive over there and I sat there for hours and you know back in the day I actually worked on computers I was okay at it you know I'm doing much anymore but I sat there for hours and worked on her computer until I got everything working right everything and again not doing it for my glory but to watch this woman just cry and thank me and ask me what what do I owe you for getting me back on my feet? Nothing! Like no! And the beauty was my wife was the one who actually sent me to go do this because it was a friend of hers that really and she was a single mom raising a couple kids and interesting enough one of her kids about a year ago called me and said hey my mom says I need to talk to you. I was like for what? She said just to mentor me. I have some business ideas and some things and he's in his 20s now. Man, crazy. Story after story, we got a job to do. We got families to help, we got widows to help, we got single moms to help, we got kids to help raise. We need to get out of our four walls and realize there's so much more work to do. It's good, man. I think if we trace that back within this episode, there are people who have... You were primarily talking about men and pastors and ministries stepping up and helping the widow, right? I mean, that is in Scripture. And so we talked today about you losing Michael two years ago. There's somebody listening to this who lost their husband 2 years ago. You lost your wife. They lost their husband, but the difference is the woman who loses her husband, the church is to step up and that's what you're saying and that and that's where these stories are coming from and I love that man because yes, there is there's action on our part as as the church, not just the building, but the church to step in and be there for these widows. So, you know, as we conclude this episode, what do you say to the widow who lost her husband on how to find that type of support? The taking charge part of who I'm going to have in my circle of people. If you're not in a church that sounds like what I just described, go to another church. I know that sounds, and I'm not for just church jumping around, but I'm telling you if you don't have that kind of support and that kind of people, you need to find a place that does. You need to be a part of a Bible study. You do. You need to find a good women's Bible study to be a part of a park, a place where you have space to breathe your story and tell what's going on. I know those can get a little bit tricky sometimes, but I'm telling you just from the people that I do know and the women that I do know, the widows that are strong, that are doing it well, every one of them is part of a really strong, good Bible study of women's group. Every one of them. I promise you that. It's part of the equation is to find those niches, those small groups that you can have space to breathe. Let me just share this with you because it just came to my mind. You know, Michael was all about helping people and there were several women that people didn't even know that she was helping. And one in particular, one in particular, we prayed for this woman and her situation every single day as a family and it was bad. It was a rough situation. And the story got out enough that there was one woman who took the story to her parents who happened to be, I don't know, business people, real estate people. Let me tell you what happened. My wife couldn't wait to come home and tell me this story. So after months and months and months of prayer, my wife was coming alongside. We were doing gift cards, we were doing gas cards, groceries, things like that. This family basically adopts this woman and her kids and says, Hey, we have a home. We've bought you a home. Not only have we bought you a home, we have furnished it. It's yours. True story. And oh, by the way, we know that you're a single mom. We know that you have to drive your kids to and from appointments, doctor's appointments, to school and all that. So we have this business and you're going to be our employee and you're going to work and here's the hours that you can work and we're going to be flexible with you. So not only did they give her a house, they supplied all our furnishings, they gave her a job and a flexible job to work and to raise her kids. Now, I don't know all the strings. I don't think there were many strings attached. I do think there was a string about whether you find a guy in your life. I do think there was a conversation about that, you know, if you marry or whatnot, you know, there might be some different things, but the house was hers no matter what. And I walked away from that situation. I thought, man, it sounds so incredible. But then I think to myself no no no no the church says to take care of the widows and orphans. Amen. This shouldn't be so amazing that we think it's a one-time only this should be the norm we should have stories like this in our churches all the time. Maybe we can't do it ourselves but together it's kind of like me going to my Sunday school class and saying, hey, I need to raise money to help this woman with her car. What if collectively as a church we stopped buying sound systems and smoke machines and new lights and that we were collectively bringing our money and our offerings and buying a widow a home? Sorry. Well listen, let me stop you because I need you to tie this back to the foundation because this is the stuff that we can do. So expand on that. So one of the reasons that I so passionately wanted to start a foundation was because of these stories, because of how Michael would go out of her way to help people that nobody even knew, how she was listening to stories and helping point people to Jesus and meeting a need. And before I knew Michael, she didn't have the money to do this, but the beauty was when we got married, there were lots of times I'd say, hey, do you have some cash in your pocket? Because I knew who she was going to talk to. And she'd say, oh, that's a great idea. Do you have anything? I'm like, absolutely. Make sure you meet a need. If you're going to go talk to them, meet a need. And so I'm passionate about doing a foundation because this is what with. You know, I was taught at a young age how to meet people's needs. My wife pushed it. My wife was constantly trying to meet a need whether emotionally or spiritually or sometimes even financially. And so I know in this area of grief, you know, sometimes grief happens out of nowhere and people aren't prepared for it. They don't have the money for a funeral. They don't have the money for groceries. They don't even know what they're gonna do tomorrow. And so if our job as a church is to take care of the widows and the orphans, the least I can do is take the legacy and the memory of my wife and start a foundation in which we can start to meet some of these needs too. And it allows me a platform to talk to my pastors and pastor's friends and ask them hard questions like, what are you doing? Like if I can raise this much to do this and yet you have a church of 200, 300, 500, a thousand, like how much more should you be doing to help people in need? I don't know. So good, man. No. You nailed it. You nailed it. And I know we've been talking about this and just and just praying praying that That we would have opportunity to be able to do this stuff So we did link the Michael foundation in the description below on YouTube here and in the show notes for anybody listening on Audio platforms, please do check out that page, you know prayerfully consider donating because we've such Specific and amazing plans for this foundation in Michael Christopher's honor. So, man, good stuff. Curtis, it's always helpful when you take a heavy topic like this and you pray us out of an episode. So, man, we talked about you lost Michael two years ago. You're navigating year two to three, and then three to four is coming after that, and a lot's gonna change. But we know people who are in a similar spot like you are, got a lot of value from this episode. So yeah man, just wherever the Spirit leads you, pray us out and look forward to the next episode. Alright. As I talk about friends and people that I know that have gone through this and are going through this, Lord, I have so many names that come to mind. So many wives without husbands, so many husbands without wives, and so many kids without mom and dad. And Lord, I could go to my prayer list and just start reading one after another. But Lord, You know these names, You know these people, You know their situations. And Lord, I pray that they would begin to take charge through your strength of their of their situation that Lord you would begin to help them find purpose that there is work yet to be done that even as broke and I know what it feels like to be broke that Lord you can give them strength they didn't even know they had. That Lord, they can take this torch, they can use it for your honor and glory, they can point people to you, they can honor their loved one. Lord, I'm learning there's so many different ways to honor my wife, Michael, and so many ways that her children can grow up to honor their mother and Lord live out a legacy of loving you and loving people and Lord that's what I want for all of them and so Lord as we end today's episode in prayer again I just want to pray specifically for my widow and widower friends and those who those who are listening and maybe turning into this podcast maybe for the first time I don't know, that Lord, this is them. And they're like, I don't know what to do with this. But Lord, you realize that there's some of us that are on the same journey, we're doing the same thing, we're learning as we go, and we're coming alongside each other in the middle of grief to try to find purpose in all of this pain. And so Lord, we love you, we praise you for who you are, what you've done, and what you're going to do. Lord, we trust you with our future. We ask these things in your name. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen.

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