Ep 2: Beauty From the Ashes of Divorce and Isolation

I've kind of been in like major survival mode and what do I share with people? And I just want to be more open and more honest and share appropriate things. And what I want my focus to be is that God is faithful and God is good through the muck and the junk and through all of it, through the pain. And yeah, I believe that there is beauty, that God makes beauty out of the ashes of our lives.

Welcome to the Run to the hard podcast where we're here to remind you that God doesn't promise us a life free from suffering, but He always brings healing and restoration on the other end. Our goal is to inspire you to face life's trials with courage and trust in God's plan. And yeah, run to the heart that God allows.

Welcome back to the Run to the Hard podcast everybody. I'm Chris Farrell and I'm here with Curtis Christopher, the content king of the podcast. I don't know about all that. How you feeling man? I mean we are releasing a lot here on these episodes. Obviously it's been emotional. Yeah that was rough. Physically, mentally I was just exhausted. That was rough. That was a lot.

I visited the chiropractor I think two more times that week and I was a mess. He said what have you been doing? I said great question I can't wait to share with you what I've been doing. He says it must have been stressful because you are a wreck. But anyways that's part of the story. The other one was you know I'm not even a year and a half out the grief I'm still working through it and

feel like I'm not firing on all cylinders, feel like my brain activity is not where it's supposed to be. But it was interesting as you kept asking the questions. I mean, you were helping me remember my wife and I was remembering stories and things and from from even before that. And so hard, but but super good. Lots of tears. But yeah.

It's good. I'm starting to get excited about this. I've been excited about something for a while and so, yeah, a lot of mixed emotions. Like I mentioned in our previous episodes, releasing this material a year and a half in, I mean, not only is it difficult emotionally, but for you to be in a place where you're still in grief and then to be as vulnerable as you've been has been super powerful. And

In our quest to put together this episode, I don't ever give you the questions upfront. No, you don't. And I do that on purpose because there's nothing better than a conversation where we are podcasting and it's just real and raw. Right. And so recently we were talking about vulnerability and how that's been obviously tough for you. And

On this episode, we're going to cover God's perfect timing and trusting God in that timing, even when it doesn't match our timing and it doesn't make sense to us. So something that goes right in line with God's timing and not understanding why and vulnerability is, well, this is really, really relative to me. So here's the deal, man. I've been noticing and I can't. I can't.

not notice this anymore and I can't lie to myself, but I'm balding. Dude, I'm balding. As you look at me. Listen, I'm balding and I thought who better to give me advice than this man here. Okay. Because look, I'm 33 and I just feel like the Lord's timing is off. Okay. I should probably be like 50 or something. Right. And so number one, I got to ask you, when did you start balding?

man, is this just a way for God to humble great men? well Boy, I've got some appropriate and some inappropriate answers to your question about balding. It is what it is No, I was I was in college I remember I was in college and I was so distraught because all of a sudden I had this little spot in the back of my head I was like you gotta be kidding me. And so I never forget I went home and

That's when Rogaine first started coming out. It was 50 bucks a month back in like 90, let's see, 89, 90. yeah, that was expensive. I mean, it was a lot back then when you're a college kid, 50 bucks a month was a big deal. And so I was like, mom, I gotta, I gotta get this. We gotta try it out. And it worked for a little while, but it, yeah, eventually balding just happens and you can't really take it out. So by the time.

I graduated, my spot was a little bit bigger and then I got married and it got a little bigger and then I had kids and it got a little bigger. And so, yeah, it's just, yeah, it's definitely, that's funny. Cause for men, I don't know if people realize for men, it is a big deal. to your confidence, it's a big deal to your overall appearance and you think about it. And, and, anyways, there came a point where,

I'd seen enough guys do the whole rap, you know, the comb over. yeah. yeah. I was like, I was probably trying to remember how old I was. It was in my thirties. Came home one day and I handed my daughter, my razor, and I put it on like one and I said, Hey, shave daddy's head. And she was like, what? And I was like, yeah, just cut it all off. Cause I'm not going to be that guy that works on the comb over. We're just going to take it off. And so from that day forward, man, I'm like a two.

I'm like a number two on the razor and I've cut from that day till now. Yeah, that's been 20 years. I've never been to the barber. I just cut my own hair. You know, actually, let's talk about the cost savings. yeah, it's huge. I've always wondered how much money I would save if I learned to cut my own hair. But I guess, I guess this is God's sick way of just, you know, helping me out financially. We're not having to do all these cuts. Well, that's so funny. See, here's the thing. I've been denying it. I saw, I saw a picture of my 32nd birthday.

like is my hairline receiving? No, there's no way. But I have a bald grandfather on both sides. My dad got hair, so he's the lucky one. And I'm just, yeah, I've always feared it because my wife has always said that she would leave me. And so that joke is now becoming a little more harsh. man, that's so funny. So we'll see what happens. I'll be sure.

It's definitely a conversation piece along the way you learn to deal with it. dude. It's so but you know what the best part about this is in this day and age I figure if I just if I live my truth that I have here and I Identify as having here then I'll be okay. my right. Yeah, you go for that. Okay. All right, cool. So anyway speaking of God's timing, you know, that's actually perfect because part of this conversation of God's timing and me going bold early and and

rushing God's timing, like when you go bald and then you go for the Rogaine and all that stuff and only works for a little bit. But in the end, God's timing is still, it's still perfect. Right? And so a lot of people want to know where you were at, Curtis, when you were biblically justified for divorce and you are now in the in -between phase between your ex -wife and meeting Michael. And so, man, share with us that

Timing and all the things that went into that. Well, first of all there were I don't ever want to leave out amazing God moments, I think part of our testimony as we Work through this journey is to even document man when you have a God moment write it down because you know We do forget things we get busy life is busy But I've been faithful to at least write these these thoughts down and some of these really big God moments But we were divorced

I also I'm trying to keep timelines because timelines help me in my story October of 18. Okay, and so Pretty rough pretty rough place obviously friends employees employers everybody knew that I was going through a divorce, but I was really Struggling with telling the world telling outside friends telling college friends, you know people that just didn't know you know the

The thing about growing up and having kids and a family is that your bubble gets smaller and smaller and then some of those acquaintances and stuff that, you know, they're living life, they're doing everything. And so you don't stay in close communication all the time. And a lot of people just didn't know. And I was struggling with telling people and I'll never forget writing it in a, remember I'm not a Facebook person, but one night I was wanting to do kind of an end of the year.

Because there were a lot of good things that happened. Kids getting engaged, kids getting married, starting a new business even on my own. And I wanted to post about it and just in my own way tell the world that hey, there's some good things going on. But at the same time, I had never used the word divorce in any kind of a post or anything public. And I was like, do I do it now? Is this when I do it? And I struggled. And finally,

I put going through divorce, blah, blah, blah, but, but God's still faithful. There's a lot of great things going on. And I, and I shared that and I immediately felt this huge burden lift of, okay, I've told the world what I thought of the way that I'd shared with the world. But, that was a, that was a big moment of, of being able to just share it. So people knew. And, I would say shortly after that, a good,

Family psychologist friend, great guy. Takes me to breakfast and he knows I'm struggling. And it was another one of those God moments where I said, hey, I want you to get out a piece of paper and a pen. And I'm like, OK, what for? And he's like, I need you to start making a list. And I said, a list for what? He's a good friend, but he's also a family psychologist. And I'm like, OK, what do you want a list for? And he said, listen, you've just been divorced. You're not even married.

months into this, this is the perfect time to start making a list of what kind of person would you want in the future. And first of all, I got mad. I was like, I can't even think that way. He said, doesn't matter. He said, you're, he said, you're broke. He said, you're hurting. He said, all these things are fresh in your mind. He said, you need to make a list. And I said, well, what does the list look like? He said, it needs to say, here's the things that I would love to have in my life someday. Here's the things that are.

Absolute no -nos, you know, you've lived enough life now that you know a lot of shadowed out You don't want X Y & Z. I said, okay, that's fair and so over the next few weeks I started writing this list I hated it because making a list means you're opening yourself up to maybe someday I would have somebody else in my life, right? And so that thought just you know, I couldn't I struggled with it. But eventually I get this list of Man, these are the things that I would

really want in another person. Here's the things that are non -negotiable, knows. And I remember getting to the end of it and just stick it in my phone and periodically looking at it, maybe taking something away, adding something to it, but it was in my phone. And so it was a done deal at that point. And all a couple months go by and you start to think, eh, I wonder if so -and -so would go out to coffee. Or I wonder if, you know, maybe I should reconnect with so -and -so. And then,

I mean when you're 50 years old and you start thinking about dating again, it's awful. In fact, it's terrifying and Finally, I just came to the conclusion. I'm just I can't I don't I don't want to go down that road right now Why is that? Were you were you concerned about your son and daughter? Was it like you had the emotional capacity all of the things you you talk yourself out of?

You know, well, what if this didn't work out? Well, that person knows so and so and knows so and so and you know, I'd hate for that to, you know, you just, you literally talk to you in a small town, small town is the worst. And yeah, your, your kids, what are they going to think? And all those things. So finally I just was like, okay, God, I just, I can't do this. And so if, if you ever had somebody for me, you're just going to have to drop them in my lap because I don't, I wasn't going to do a dating app. I wasn't going to do anything like that. And so I basically resolved myself to,

Yeah, I'm just not going to enter the dating world. Not now for sure. And but anyways, two God moments make a list. And I wrote that one down in a journal. The second God moment was me committing and saying, OK, God, no dating. I'm just going to leave that up to you. And so even though that sounds really simple, I think a lot of people get to that point on their own. But for me, it was it was another commitment to God like, God, this is yours. I just yeah.

I don't want to mess this up. So when it came to the initial God moment of making a list, when this counselor asked you to make a list, you did not desire.

to date you did not think you were getting back on the dating scene at all? no, so I was divorced in October. This was probably November when I made that post about sharing with people that I was divorced and then right around that same time as when he met. So we're only talking about a couple three months. Yeah, so I'm not in a good place in any of those categories. Interesting why he would ask you to make a list that quick. Did you ever find out why? Well, yeah. So, man, I can share his name. Dr. Miller is amazing.

he and his wife so he was a christian counselor married for years his kids get to college age and and their marriage falls apart and his wife who they get a divorce and he thinks his careers over you know here is a christian counselor he's he's counseled hundreds if not thousands of young families and and he can't even keep his own marriage together okay and to have him he's written is he's written a book himself

To hear him share his story is gut wrenching, but then after it happens, his business explodes. And he looks at me and said, Curtis, those were some of the best opportunities I had to share because I went through it. Wow. You want to talk about a nugget. He looked me in the eye and said, I now could experience what these people were going through and they trusted me and my business exploded. And I was like, wow.

and then he meets a really neat lady. Dr. Joy Shields, she delivered my daughter at Berger Hospital and those two, you know, people from the church connected these two. She had been through a terrible divorce. Those two come together. They're a power couple. They're unbelievable. God's all over this marriage. They've written about it. They've talked about it. They've shared it in seminars. Anyways, this is the guy who's telling me,

write a list. So I have respect for him. So when he says write a list, I'm like, okay, cause you know, you've kind of been there before you've done some things. I don't want to do it, but I'll trust you. The key is he did the same thing. He wrote a list. Got it. So had he always been your counselor or did you seek him out because of his experience and knowing he could relate? Just church connections.

We knew them and honestly at the last minute he was kind of a latch last ditch effort even in our marriage Yeah to see if there was anything to salvage and so yeah There was a point where he what he actually did counsel us for a little while, but then this was just a friendly Breakfast calls me up Curtis. Let's go to breakfast We need a chat and this was the nugget that he that he gave me. Yeah, love it Okay, so make a list even when you don't want to yeah

Love it. Yeah, and then I think I think it's implied that you were you were you were seeking help Sure somebody to talk to you and counseling during this time because because you knew you knew that you you couldn't just bear all of this Emotional we know God would always put the right person at the right time man that happened. Whoo That happened all the time at my worst point worst day phone call a text a breakfast a lunch

God was super faithful during that time. That was huge. God's timing. Yep, absolutely. Love it. Yep. Love it. And then number two was you describe this as a God moment of saying no dating. Yeah, I just, I couldn't do it. Every time I would try to convince myself, it's just coffee. What's the big deal? I just felt, well, I did, I felt God saying, you know, timing's not right. And I was able to just say, God, you're gonna have to.

Just if this is ever gonna be a thing, it's gonna be because you you orchestrated it Got it. So take me forward a little bit. You're like, hey, it's not the right timing I don't feel like God's blessed the timing for me to date you're working with dr. Miller. He's challenging you for what the future might hold What happens next? Let's see Again, I have to go back through the timing towards October December January February

Around February, I get a message from a friend from college I hadn't talked to in 30 years. Mike Lengel is now one of the development guys from our alma mater. And he'd reached out, told me about his new job, his new gig, wanted to reconnect and share. And I remember him saying, hey, did you get that invite to our college get together? I said, yeah. I'm not real sure I want to do that. And I just kind of played it off.

Didn't have the conversation with him. It was great to reconnect. We chatted. We talked for a while, but that was in the conversation. A couple weeks later, he calls me back and says, you have an RSVP. Your invite to this get together yet. I'm like, I'm like, Mike, OK, I've got to tell you what's going on. I've not wanted to, but dude, I I've been through a terrible divorce. I'm miserable. The last thing I want to do is go to an.

alma mater event with a bunch of happy couples, even though the event was in Laguna Beach, California. I left that part out. It was an amazing place, but I'm just like, I don't want to go. And I cried and we shared and we talked and talked in years and it was another God moment where it was a dark day on the, I can remember exactly where I was sitting, what I was doing when I got that phone call. And I remember, you know, crying on the phone and explaining what was going on.

And him saying this is exactly why you have to come. He says I'm there for you. It's gonna be a great event. God's gonna be all over it We're gonna have amazing speakers Steven Curtis Chapman is gonna do the music and I'm like what he's like, yeah, it's gonna be amazing. You gotta come He said I'll hang out with you. Well, we'll just sit together. We'll we'll cry together if we have to we'll do whatever you got to do, but you got to come and and and I Reluctantly said, okay. All right, so I go and blind

buy my plane tickets and I fly out to Laguna Beach, okay? And it was, it was, so there's number three, God moment. I share with Mike what's going on, first time I'd shared with an outside person who wasn't in our small community and he immediately says, no, this is exactly why you have to come and God's gonna be all over this thing, just trust me on this. And so, another timing, yep, another timing issue, another.

God moment and I forgot it. That's so cool to me because it's not easy to get rejected. And you rejected him. And he kept pressing in knowing that you needed to pull yourself out of, you know, just isolation. Sure. Right. Were you isolating at that time? What were you doing with your time? I had quit everything by this time. I had stepped down from church board. I'd stepped down from

Community boards I was on two or three community boards. I was on the church board. I was serving in different capacities and just Felt unworthy felt broken It's just it's part of the process that it is a divorce thing where you you go through I don't know you go through a death and Yeah, so I was pretty isolated. I had I had I bought a little cabin up in Michigan and that was I was disappearing almost every weekend I would run I would drive up there five -hour drive

I'd work on it all weekend. Just fixing it up having some alone time I did a lot of walking a lot of praying During that time but all that's going on at the same time. Yeah So somebody is listening to this and they're in a similar spot to you or in mm -hmm Give me some advice. How long how long do I isolate? Because some people do need to isolate for a second You know what I mean? Is there is there a point where you know that you were isolating too long where might got you at the right time?

to say okay. man, but again, that's a God thing. That wasn't my doing. If it was my doing, I probably would have self -destructed had that gone longer than it did. So that's why I marked those as God moments because God came in at the right time on the right day when I needed help the most. And so I don't know if I could have sought that out. It's not that there weren't people there available.

I think there were 10 people on my phone I could have called on any one day. Well, let me push you. Be a god moment for somebody listening right now. When do you know you've been isolating too long?

I'm sorry for the pause. I mean, God was always faithful. When I was at my worst, He would show up.

So I was definitely in those moments where every time he would show up with the right person, with the right phone call, with the right text. So maybe somebody listening to this that knows somebody that's going through this, reach out. man. Invite them to breakfast. Please. Yep. Yep.

Yeah, we all know somebody going through this and I think one of the greatest lessons that that Michael and others have taught me but my wife Michael man she was faithful to keep her ear to the ground to pay attention to those in need and she always asked the right question or she'd wake up and say I need to I need to call so and so I need to text so and so and so that's an area that she was ultra sensitive in.

Sometimes she would just tell me I just feel like I'm supposed to reach out to so and so I'm gonna call them take them to take them to coffee I'm said that's awesome do it and so that Grow that's part of our growth in Christ is when we become sensitive to the needs of others and so you know the circle of people that I had in my life were those people and they were sensitive and they always called and they always came in at the right time and so Something that I'm learning to do. I'm trying to do my wife modeled it so well and even now I

Even in the middle of grief, I still wake up and there's people that come to mind and I'm trying to be sensitive to their needs. And if the Lord says, do it, I'm just doing it. I'm trying not to fight it. It doesn't matter what I'm going through that day. They must need it worse than I do. And so, yeah, that's so good, man. So I didn't mean to pull it back there. You know, I just really felt like there was something, something important for someone listening here. Yeah. Going through those emotions, people who are either going through it or know someone going through it.

So the actionable step there is reach out. Yep. Yeah. Please, please reach out. Somebody needs it. Somebody needs it. Good. Good. So so Mike invites you to Laguna Beach. You fly out. It was good. Yeah. I mean, it's Laguna Beach. The hotel is right on the ocean. It's beautiful. The weather's perfect. We have amazing speakers. Our college president delivers some amazing messages. And and so there were definitely God moments. So God brought me there through Mike.

To reconnect reconnected with some old friends reconnected with some of the administration at the at the college and That part was good didn't take away from where I was, you know, emotionally mentally. I was still struggling But there were definitely god moments. There were some decisions made But here comes another huge god moment Never saw this coming it. It still blows me away today to even think about it

It's the last night of the event. I'm feeling sorry for myself. I'm up in my room and the crazy thing is, is this room they put me in? I mean, I couldn't, when I walked in, I was like, are you kidding me? God, this is nuts. I'm literally looking out over the pool. That's looking out over the ocean. Dead center of this amazing hotel and

It was amazing view, it was an amazing place to be. But, you know, last night I'm feeling sorry for myself. I should be out on a walk, I should be walking up and down the beach, I should be enjoying the sunset. But instead I'm just sitting on my phone and I'm scrolling Facebook, which is a whole story by itself because up until, you know, 2019, I didn't hardly use it. It wasn't my thing. And so I'm not a Facebook guy. I think my ex -wife actually is the one who signed me up.

You know, we both worked at the college and so, you know, that was the college thing back in the day, you know, and I think I used it to promote like our basketball seasons and stuff like that. When you guys played for me, I think I talked about tournaments or whatnot, but honestly didn't use it a whole lot. And so I'm scrolling Facebook, I'm laying in bed and I come across, it's kind of a dark video. There's, this lady and it is a video. There's a lady and she's talking and she's inside her vehicle.

And I click on it of all things. I click on this video of this woman and she's pouring her guts out about going through a terrible divorce. man, there's so many interesting things about this video because number one, I don't know her. I don't know who she is. I don't know why she's in my feed. Okay. But I click on it and, and she, for the first time is sharing with her world that she's going through a divorce, which.

you know, immediately hooks me because I just did this for the first time, you know, just a month or two ago, I said, okay, the words divorced in a post, trying to celebrate the good things that were happening in my life. But at the same time, letting the world know that maybe they didn't know that I was going through it. So I immediately felt for it because I realized this was the first time she was doing the same thing. I listened to it a little bit longer and I don't think I ever got through the whole video, but.

I was drawn because I had two other friends back home that also were going through a divorce and the three of us, you know, we would talk with each other. We'd pray for each other. We'd stay in touch. And so I wrote this quick little note, which is so not me. Hey, so and so, I'm really sorry. I don't know. You don't know your situation, but I do know what you're going through have been there and still going through it, have some friends going through it. Can I just add your name to our prayer list?

you know, as we pray for each other. And that was it. Well, I typed this little note up in my phone and then I freak out and I throw my phone down on the bed and I'm like, what are you doing? This is this is not you. You're not a Facebook stalker. You don't like go looking for women online like I like this is I'm I'm mad at myself. Like, what are you doing?

And so I throw my phone down. I'm like, I'm not doing that. I'm not that guy like she who does that? She doesn't know me and so I go to bed and I'm miserable like miserable and One o 'clock in the morning two o 'clock rolls around look at the clock and I'm like, I just need some sleep three o 'clock in the morning Lord the Guys, I whether you believe this or not. I just have to tell you what God did. He said send the message and I was like Lord

I don't think that's a good idea and I have a little argument. He says the message send the message like Lord. That's not me. I don't I'm not this online person. I've already you know anyways and he says send the message. So finally I picked my phone up and I said OK I have this little prayer said God I don't know this person. I don't know their situation. I'll send it but you're going to have to deliver it accordingly because I'm not that guy and I hit send and go to bed. The weirdest thing.

So you know, God moment, God moment, God moment. And then who would have thought that this would be a God moment, that he has me send a random stranger a message of prayer going through a divorce? Nuts -o. So when you say God spoke to you, was this like a, was this like a, you couldn't think of anything but send the message? I'm, explain that a little more. No, it's good, because people talk about an audible voice.

And it's in your mind. It's not like an audible voice in your ear, but it's definitely in your mind. And you know you've been awake and you're miserable. And so one thing I learned years ago was how God spoke to me. And usually it was internal. It was a gut thing. It was a... God would make me miserable, sometimes sick to my stomach, where until I did the thing that he asked me to do, and as soon as I did it...

the pain, the misery, all the pieces would disappear. And it was one of those moments. God said, send the message. I went to God, send the message. My God, this is a bad idea. Send the message. You know, I sent the message, slept just fine. And I did what I was supposed to do. So knowing the voice of God is a big deal. Man, we should talk about that sometime because early on in my life, I had to discover that voice because the misery of not following his voice was

Awful anyways Can't just say it you can't drop a line like that and say anyways. No, man. That's awesome That's awesome. And you're so and you're so right I know there have been there have been several times in my life where I'm like Lord Is that you or is it not you right? But then I almost run it through this through this test of like filtering. Mm -hmm. Is this God's character? Is this is this aggressive and?

would this honor Him or serve somebody? And if it would, it probably is Him. Yes, so you're smarter than I am because I am just stubborn and God would have... No, I'm serious. He would hit me upside the head with a two by four to get my attention. Yeah. And so the voice of God in my life over the years has been misery where gut wrenching, I'm sick to my stomach, gonna vomit if I don't make this decision. And I'm serious. That's good. Over and over and over and over. That's how He spoke to me. Yeah.

That's really good. That's really good. So So you send this message to this random lady on Facebook who you are you're connecting with her story and It's intriguing Obviously, she's easy on the eyes. So yeah easy to watch the video which made it even weir Which is why I was so apprehensive to want to even send something to a pretty lady that I don't know, you know, that's a Mm -hmm. That's a hard pill to swallow. So you go to bed. Mm -hmm

not thinking anything of it right i'm done you wake up in the morning and what so i a get on a plane fly home and the next day and aware i was it's funny cuz not only do i have these timelines of god moments but also also have these places i remember where i was at where i was standing in my phone goes ding ding it's the message your noise which i'm not familiar with cuz again on a face book guy let me pause for a second cuz

Man I was gonna I was gonna try to save this for later, but I just have to now because It'll make it funnier sure I'm not a Facebook guy, and I don't know that Facebook is her world okay, so just if anybody listening can understand that this is a woman who had started an online business and She used Facebook for a lot of marketing. She used it to connect to people she used messenger to connect to people I don't know any of this because guess what?

I don't know who this person is. So now imagine that. So this person uses Facebook and Messenger to talk and communicate, to basically make money as they're living and everything else. And then there's this poor schmuck over here who's confused and he's mad that he sent a message to this strange lady, which is not strange to her at all because she's used to communicating with people. Does that make sense? I feel like if I set the stage and let people understand that, it makes the story even better. So.

Highly communicative, always like just very extroverted personality, always posting videos. Yes. So I learn all this much later, of course. And so my phone goes ding ding and I look and it has a little one beside the messenger icon. I'm like, OK, what's this? I click on it and she responded. And my first thought was, crap, because I went to bed. I did what I was supposed to do, had no intentions of.

ever getting a response or ever having to communicate with this person. I just did what I was supposed to do. And so it's not only a messenger, it's a voice message. I didn't know messenger can do that. I thought it was a text thing only. So here's this woman. I get to hear her voice. Sweet, sweet lady, sweet voice. and she's just thanking me. Curtis. I really appreciate that. That was a great yes.

She actually said, she said, that was one of the hardest things I've ever done. She said, as soon as I sent that message to the world telling them I was going through divorce, I wanted to vomit. I sat in the middle of my room and cried. Like she's telling me this. And she said, so the fact that, you know, you would just say anything and yes, please add my name to your prayer list. I could use all the prayers I need. There was a big pause. I'm like, great, that's it. I don't have to respond. She thanks me. So I send the message. She thanks me.

And I'm done. I'm like off scot -free in my brain. I understand what's going on the dynamics big pause. And then it was, Hey, so tell me about your kids. Like how old are I? See you. I see you've got kids. And I was like, no. She asked me a question. And I remember just fumbling thinking, man, I, I wasn't prepared for this. Cause go back to the moments prior to this. Not looking for a girl, not dating.

God, you're gonna have to send somebody to me because I'm not, I don't want to mess this up. God, God has these moments with me all the way up to this point, even to the point of making me send a random woman a message. And, and nowhere in my brain am I looking for a woman. I'm just trying to set the stage here so you understand because I can see people listening, take a look at Michael's picture online and be like, man, this dude, he says these words.

But I seen her face. Are you with me? Sure. So I'm trying hard to paint this picture, but so I respond. It was it was awful. But anyways, I tell her a little bit about my kids. And and next thing I know, we're just having these conversations, you know, mostly about, you know, the age of our kids. My kids are in college. Her kids are young. At that point, her kids are just five kids. So I learned how many kids she has.

We just start sharing back and forth a little bit about life. There was nothing... I mean, if people are wondering if this is a romantic relationship, it is not. This is a really basic, friendly relationship. However, I'm intrigued. Why is this woman talking to me? Yeah. Right? At the time, did you wonder if this could go any further? Or like, you had been praying for God's timing. Yeah, but I don't know anything about her.

And this, I'm glad you asked that. Cause I had a list. I had a list. And my list was stringent. Your list was what I'm saying? Stringent. It was very pointed to the fact where I'm like, I'd have to know somebody really, really well to know if they even made my list. Does that make sense? Sure. So I have this list now. So you didn't start filtering it through the list yet? not yet. No, no. This is just this.

this friendly conversation at the same time I'm like okay who is this person so now I'm looking at her Facebook and I'm I'm looking at her post and I noticed three things are off the bat number one she's really deep spiritually grounded she is a great communicator I was like my word who is this and she was super pretty so she's super pretty she's a great communicator

Super talented and the farther I dug I was like, my word. And I remember telling my friend Dev and I was like, hey, check this girl out on Facebook. And he's like, why? I was like, well, somehow, some way we've started this friendly conversation. He's like, what? And I'm like, no, just check her out. Look at her stuff. And he comes back and he says, man, she's like super talented. I'm like, I know. He says, do you know her? I said, not really. He said, you should try to hire her. Because we had just started a business.

And we were trying to figure out marketing and all that kind of stuff. And so Devin's first response is, you should try to hire her. Exactly, yeah. True story. So you mentioned he asked if you knew her. Right. People are probably wondering, how did you see this message if you didn't know her? my goodness. So that's why I preferenced the whole Facebook thing. So this is the best her and I could figure this out, because I kept saying, how is she in my feed? And then how in the world is she my friend?

on Facebook and people are already like, my word. True story, I don't know how she's my friend on Facebook. I didn't use Facebook. It wasn't something I used all the time. So what happened was is back in 17, she was starting an online business and so she was going into our community, it's mostly church groups, mostly church groups and she was basically friending everybody. And so the more I researched, I was like, she's friends with all of my friends.

We're friends with like 150 people. How is that possible? And the more I researched, she's friends with my ex -wife, she's friends with my mother -in -law, she's friends with on and on and on and on. I'm like, what? This doesn't make sense. Well, back to the whole marketing piece, she was friending everybody in our community because she was building a brand, building a company. Bold. That's awesome. But that's the funny part is I don't quite understand all that world. Sure. But I'm having this.

communication with this lady, right? So everybody knows where this is going. My heart starts to get tugged, not knowing that I'm just another Joe Schmo in her marketing campaign. You're just a prospect, man. It was awful. my goodness. Because the funny part is - And you found that out way later. yeah. Okay. Because at this point, my heartstrings are starting to get tugged on. I'm like, who is this woman? I'm researching her. I'm going in looking at that.

now i know anything now i'm creepy now you're creepy at okay but i don't know that i'm just another josh mo you know prospect in her whole online world and so that that's why i want to preference the story this way because you can see where this you know where the fork in the road is where i'm at where she's at and so yeah later when we were married she she would say they've i'm really sorry i'm sorry that you fell in love with the face book version of me and yes how i guess story

Yeah, that conversation came up a lot but anyways, you know a few weeks go by and there's just been this, you know fun conversation It was fun. She was so she was funny She was deep we we started talking about spiritual things different things like that and And again, it's all messenger. There's no phone calls. There's no texting because here's another thing all messenger voice well

Couldn't keep up with the voice part. So mine was a lot of texting, you know the text part not the voice But she was all voice all the time again didn't know that that was her avenue of communicating with her online world if she'd be driving and just you know voice messaging people all the time constantly is it interesting that That was her method of communicating via voice and now you're communicating your story. man. Yeah. Yeah, I know now it comes full circle. Yeah, so Again, we're on two different paths

And I don't quite understand how all this works yet, but at some point her daughter Ella This is probably four weeks probably four weeks into this friendly conversation Her daughter goes mom. Who are you talking to? I know she's talking to somebody on a regular basis and she has all this guy in Circleville and at this time they had moved to Zina so going through a divorce, you know five kids she's

actually fixing up a house, which is interesting because we'll get into all that. She's fixing up a house, moving back to Zina. Her family's there and her daughter says, who is this you're talking to? And she's an hour from you, correct? Which is an hour for me. Yeah. And she says, it's this guy. He's a friend. And Ella goes, mom, if there's a guy messaging this much, you know, he wants more than to be a friend. And, I've, I've actually had this conversation with both of them at the same time. Yeah. And it's,

funny because you know Michael's Michael's a little bit innocent and a little naive she was like no and she says Ella do you think that's true and I was like mom seriously do I have to educate you about this stuff too and so then I get this really long you know dear John message and the funny thing is is messenger is only one minute at a time you can only do a one minute piece at a time

I get like 15 of them because she keeps running out of time because she can't get rid of me that fast. It's a lot of these ums and wells and hey, I'm really sorry. I hope you didn't think something more than me just, you know, and she kept and by the way, and and I'm sure you're a nice guy. And but yeah, I can't be more than just a Facebook friend. And, you know, and it was so funny. By the time I listened all 15, I'm dying laughing because she can't get her. She can't get rid of me.

She's trying to get rid of me and she can't do it. And so finally she gets the end all that to say I I just I'll be your Facebook friend, but I can't messenger and talk to you anymore. I hope I hope you understand. I'm sure you're a nice guy and blah blah blah blah. And finally I chime in. I'm like, listen, I think you're super smart lady at least someday, maybe one day. Can we at least have coffee?

You know, I don't know what all is going on in your life. I don't understand all the pieces, but you've intrigued me enough. I'd love to have coffee with you someday. And so we end it with, yeah, maybe someday. That'd be a good idea. Someday, maybe we can have coffee together. I'm like, okay. Yeah. So take me back to God's timing. Okay. You meet with Dr. Miller. It's three months after your divorce. You build this list. You're like, I'm not going to do anything with this list.

You say no dating, no trying, you know, you let the thoughts kind of go in different places, but you're like, nope, not going to happen. Then Mike Lengel pulls you to Laguna Beach, poor you. And, and you have this amazing time. You're out of isolation. You meet this woman. She's intriguing. Yes. Okay. And then we're four weeks in. Did you feel like God was releasing you to date?

Or did you feel like you were maybe rushing his timeline? I was confused. I remember she was thinking of me as a client and I was starting to get my heartstrings pulled a little bit. So very confused because I'm thinking, wait a minute, God, I didn't ask to send that message. You did. And now, but again, so, man, I'm glad you brought this up. Okay, so.

Divorce is miserable. It's awful. There's so many moving pieces. You're breaking apart families and things like that I don't know her whole story, but I know that her divorce I do know this much at this point. I know that she's in court all the time. There's child custody issues There's all kinds of stuff. She wants the divorce done. It's not happening very very fast and I Don't think it's a good idea to date while you're going through a divorce I don't when I look at it

friends who have tried to do it and I look at others who have and I see the you're already in a big mess why make it messier and start dating somebody in the middle of a divorce that make sense sure so from a life principle point I understood like this is not good this is not good timing I don't know her whole situation I don't know her timelines but I know that even though she's moved to Zina things not done yet

And I know that our conversations are still just friendly. So we haven't crossed any romantic lines or anything like that. Again, I'm a client to her. To me, I'm like, who is this person? I'm starting to get a little intrigued to the point where I've even told a couple of my close friends, you know, Sarah Emerson, she worked for me in the office and my friend Devin that I just mentioned, I did tell my mom, I'll be honest, my mom was very nervous. She, cause then.

She starts stalking. She's like, who is this person that my son's interested in? And so she, she has lots of questions. And of course I'm like, mom, just friends. And then of course I have to tell them all that, you know, I kind of got the dear John and you know, go away, which they're all, which they're all like, what? Wait a minute. I thought you were becoming friends with this person, but anyways. Yeah. Yeah. So you get this, you get a series of dear John messages. She's trying to talk herself out of this.

You realize she's going through a divorce. I think you mentioned to me a few times that your list that you created was no drama. my goodness, yes. So you're like, hey, well maybe this doesn't meet the criteria anyway. And you're obviously bummed at this point. Yeah, I'm bummed. Yeah. Yeah. So what's the timeline? She cut you off. And your friends are like, I'm sorry, man. Yeah, this is April. So this is in April. man, there's another god moment.

comes up. It's about four weeks after we start communicating and and I'm like, Okay, so remember, I'm still going up to the lake on the weekends, I'm going up to Michigan. One of those times when I was at the lake, it was May of May of 19. I was in a really rough spot. I remember I was walking a lot. I was walking around the lake, doing a lot of work at the cabin. But one particular morning was a Sunday morning.

May 5th, I was up early about 5am walking around the lake and Talking to God listen to music probably need to breathe that was my go -to still is actually but I Turned the corner. I remember I turned the corner and was heading down to the docks of the lake and The Sun was just coming up there was still

fog on the water. It was an amazing picture. I took a picture of it. Took several pictures that morning, but man, God just met me in an unbelievable way. And it was one of those defining moments where God said, I've got this. I've got this.

In fact, I knew we were going to talk about this today, so I actually brought up a couple of the posts from way back then. And here's what I wrote that morning. It says, this is a picture that I took down by the lake. It has become a symbol of my recent life's journey. I actually took a picture and I blew it up and put it by my back door. I find myself looking at it almost daily.

Notice the new growth of spring bursting out of the dead of winter and the new leaves beginning to bud on all the trees. The path is a reminder to me of this new journey.

taking towards something new and amazing. I thank God for his faithfulness during the dead and dry times. I thank thank him for the promises of new life and growth. The future may be unknown, but his promises remain the same. And man, it was an impactful morning. And I never forgot it. I took a picture of it, you know, and I put it on my wall. I didn't want to forget. But it was God just telling me that man,

You're in the you're in the dead of winter, but spring's coming and I've got something new and amazing for you. And, crazy thing was, man, just a week or two later, a friend of mine, he saw the post and he said, Hey, I wrote a poem. Your picture so inspired me. I couldn't help it. And if you want, please share it. And, he wrote because it's basically a doc going out into the, into the lake. He says, he wrote a poem. He called it journey. He said,

My first steps on a journey.

My first step's on a journey that many feet have trod. My heart is ready for something healing, so I place my trust in God. The path is worn and weathered. Once living, it's now dead, trampled on by millions who walk the path ahead. Perspective changes everything. It's the direction of my eyes when watching steps that others take.

than they're my future lies. So I'll recognize the beauty that surrounds the path I'm on embracing this great adventure as God writes me a new song.

I'll find joy in the unexpected and peace beyond compare. His plan unfolds before me. A new future he wants to share. What an amazing poem. And those who are listening, obviously you can hear, you can hear the emotion. I can, I can see the tears welling up in your eyes, man. And I got to think like this literally takes you back to those moments where you are just in despair.

It was such a tough time and you're just like, God, what are you doing? How, how and why did you allow this to happen to me? And me to be in a place of isolation and in a place where I'm lonely and forgot to meet you on that dock and give you that promise. Man, I mean, what?

What does that mean to you now looking back? you know, I've had lots of God moments since then, but,

I could have never imagined or picked or guessed the kind of person that God was about to reveal and share with me.

We always use the term too good to be true, but in this case, it really, really was. It was too good to be true.

So I know the story we're going after and I wanted to pull up the actual clip and just pull apart 50 or so seconds so people could hear Michael's voice of the exact video that you're referring to. I've kind of been in like major survival mode and what do I share with people?

I just want to be more open and more honest and share appropriate things and what I want to my focus to be is that God is faithful and God is good through the muck and the junk and Through all of it through the pain and yeah I believe that there is beauty that God makes beauty out of the ashes of our lives and That's my hope and prayer for this and all of our lives and honestly and your lives too for whatever

whatever hard times that you guys are going through. Yeah, there's nothing fun or easy about these situations, but I just want to share more of how we're trusting God. That's good, man.

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