Ep 5: Beyond The Funeral: The Next Chapter of Grief

One of the hardest things ever was getting up in the middle of the night and hearing one of the kids just sobbing. That's hard. Yeah. Because you can't fix it. Welcome to the Run to the Hard Podcast where we're here to remind you that God doesn't promise us a life free from suffering, but he always brings healing and restoration on the other end. Our goal is to inspire you to face life's trials with courage and trust in God's plan. And oh yeah, run to the hard that God allows. All right, man. So on the last episode, Curtis, we were able to cover the funeral and how much support that you and your family got. So now we're at the point where, you know, I would assume you come home from the funeral and you guys have a meal with people you love and who have supported and prayed for you and at some point, you know, you say your goodbyes to your friends and it's just you. So what happens in those first few hours, days, wherever you want to take me after the funeral? I remember, yeah, gathering things up, you know, even at the end of the meal and loading the truck up with some flowers. We gave a lot of stuff away there was a lot of things that came to the church for the funeral and you know, I was asking her family and siblings and mom and dad do you want this do you want this and and you know you load the truck up and Yeah, you you get in and you drive home. I think the The most helpful thing that anybody did for me was my My son and daughter-in-law. They they just came and just kind of took over the house. Does that make sense? I didn't think about anything, didn't worry about anything. Honestly, I came home, went to bed. I just went to bed and I can't imagine other people – I don't know. I don't know what other people do in that situation, but I don't remember much from the next few days. I just came home, went to bed. Obviously, I didn't have the kids. We've talked about that a little bit. Didn't know when I would have the kids. Didn't know, I mean, nobody knew. At that point, even Michael's mom and dad didn't know what their dad would do. Would he move away? Would he stay? Nobody knew. It was just a lot of unknowns, and that's a lot to carry. So I think for me, it was just, go to bed. I don't recommend it, but you know, I took NyQuil and went to sleep. And don't remember a whole lot the first couple days. Was grateful for the people that came. A lot of food, people were always dropping food off. That probably lasted a couple weeks, where people would drop food off and, you know, sometimes it was just a note on the front porch. And that was awesome. So many cards, so many messages, text, Facebook Messenger, cards in the mail. To this day, I have a huge box of cards. I've never gone through them, and I keep telling myself, at some point you need to go through them, just to track and see who wrote you know what and I will I'm getting I'm getting there little by little I'm I'm going through stuff Which is a whole nother subject, you know sure stuff Closet full dressers full, you know, what do you do with all that? But I Don't know. Yeah, that's a let me ask you. That's a pretty vague memory Sure Sure. Let me ask you a question, you know, from my perspective, being the friend. So you have someone who has something tragic happen, and you want to support them, and you bring them food, right? But they're conflicting opinions here, whether you spend time with them, whether they're being nice, you're overstaying your welcome. What's your opinion on, you know, should it be a drop-off? Expand on that. Yeah, I think a drop-off's good. I think, I think let, read the person, you know. For, it's actually a really good question, seriously. Because, you know, that first week, you know, I don't want to stop talking to anybody at that point. Just, thank you, appreciate it, a text. And you're also wanting to be hospitable. So when somebody says, hey, can I drop this off? You know, sometimes it'd be like, oh, well, yeah, hey, I'm just not a good place. Just leave it on the front porch and let me know when you're here. Or, you know, hey, I ran uptown for an errand, leave it on the kitchen counter for me and I'll be home shortly. So for me, I think I was pretty open to just tell, let people know in a very, I don't know, hospitable way that, yeah, I don't want to stick around and talk. Does that make sense? But I think everybody's going to be different. I think everybody will do that different. Some people want somebody to come in and they want noise, they want activity, they want something to keep them busy. But I was just, I was so exhausted. It had been such an exhausting experience that I just, I just crashed. I just crashed. So good question. Speaking of, yeah, well, speaking of, you know, staying busy and, you know, kind of trying to find that, that therapeutic release in the first few weeks and months. Yeah. Can you, can you describe kind of what that was for you? Um, I really only had one thing, you know, I had been writing, um, and posting all throughout the hospital and then even before the the funeral I kept writing and people like how are you doing that and I Don't know how else to describe it because I've had different people say Or ask me, you know Curtis Why and how have you kept writing? The only way I can describe it is I had this incredible fear of forgetting a story. It was terrifying. I knew grief was like taking over. I knew that I was feeling it physically, mentally, emotionally, and I just remember having this fear of I never want to forget anything. I don't want to forget a moment, a great moment. I don't want to forget, you know, just and so You know, you don't sleep much. Anyways, you know grief just It's the worst when it comes to sleep And so, you know, you're using sleep aids and different things to go to sleep, but didn't matter I'd be awake at 435 o'clock in the morning and the first thing I do is wake up and my eyes would come open and I and I would have a story and I'm like, I don't want to forget it. And I would write it. And I did that, I mean, for months, every morning, wake up and write something, write a memory of of something she said, write a memory of something we did. And I didn't want to forget. Now. Honestly, you know, it's been a year and a half later and. It was more of a fear than an actuality, like I'm going to remember this stuff, but I had that fear. And so for me, I would write and honestly, I would write and cry and write and cry. I mean, there was not a single moment that I wrote that I didn't sob doing it. Like it was just so it was, it was therapeutic, you know? Um, but at the same time, and then I would go to bed, I would get up, sob, cry, write, and I'd probably go right to bed. And I did that for, I'll be honest with it, you know, but weeks before I could before I could just get back to doing anything, but The crazy thing about that time period was you know? Ella was living with me full-time at that point, you know, she's She's older. She's made that decision. You know, the other four children. They're with their dad We don't know when we're going to see them. We don't know how it's going to work out. But Ella's therapy during that time is, I'm in my bedroom, which is next to the kitchen, and for days I would hear the pantry door, the cabinet door slamming and shutting and opening, and I'd come out and be like, what in the world is going on? And she cleaned this house from corner to corner. She reorganized the kitchen. She threw more things away. I couldn't find anything for months. She took everything and moved it around, and I just left her alone. I was like, okay, this is her thing. This is what she's doing. She took every moment she could. She didn't want to be out in public, but she cleaned and organized and threw stuff out. She went through the kids rooms like this was this was her therapy So I was able to watch that you know firsthand and see okay, so Everybody does this different kids do it different. You know yeah parents do it different everybody does it different and so How do you think? How do you think? Michael Would have handled losing you. Do you think she would have written? Do you think she'd have posted videos? What do you think would have been her therapeutic release? People. She'd have been the opposite. Yeah, she would have had a house full of people. Yep. Okay, so she would have invited people over. Oh yeah, yeah, she would have stayed up half the night talking with friends. Yeah, she would have made life busy with people to keep her occupied. Oh, for sure, 100%. Yeah. And they probably would have walked away shaking their head, just like at the hospital. Yeah, absolutely. Like, she inspired me, I thought I was supposed to inspire her. Exactly, yep. Unbelievable. That's cool. Have any of the younger kids explained to you kind of what they did? I know this was the point where you didn't know if you were gonna see them very frequently, and we hadn't gotten to that point yet, and we're definitely gonna cover that in this episode, but had any of the other kids kind of explained what they were doing to stay busy? Well, we can kind of jump into that a little bit too, because I think the two go hand in hand. Sure. You know, they're in school. And so, you know, the first thing I have to do is, is figure out, you know, their schedule. You know, school activities, ball games, things like that, and just start showing up. So for me it was finding opportunities to show up to school events, to stay connected, to give them a hug, to see how they're doing, to check in on them, and check in with teachers. How's so-and-so doing, how's so-and-so doing? And then it became, hey, can I have the kids to help me do something for her gravesite? Yeah, that'd be great. And so it was, hey, can I have the kids for an evening to do this? We made a cross for mom. We didn't have a headstone for a long time. So we made a cross and we glued all of our initials on the cross. There's nine kids now. My two oldest, five kids plus their spouses is nine. So we have all of our initials. We put on the back of the cross, mom and wife, and on the front we put her name. We even put a little paw for our dog Marty on her cross and we painted it white and black and we went out and Put it on the put it at the cemetery and we so I was trying to make occasions up to Do things with kids that you know Who's gonna turn that down, right? Yeah, we're gonna do this. So so I was starting to do that and then it turned into Hey, can I can I take the kids to dinner tonight? And so it took weeks to get to this point. And then months before it became like a normal occurrence. So yeah, we worked through that. So every time we would have time or one-on-one or with a couple of them, how we doing, you And I would immediately begin telling mom's stories or bringing things up about mom so that we were talking about her. I wanted it to be the norm. I wanted to make sure that we were constantly talking about her. And it became a normal occurrence because she was so communicative with them. And they had this mom who loved to have deep and good conversations with them. You're not gonna believe this, but I'm dating this woman and I'm hanging out with her and her kids for the first few times, and I never forget we were in her van going somewhere. I think we were going to a big park to go hiking, and the kids were like, hey, mom, can we see your phone? We wanna do those conversation starters. I was like, what? What are you guys even talking about? And Michael's like, you've never done those before? I'm like, no. She's like, yeah, just Google conversation starters. And my kids love it. They'll Google that and pull up this list. And it'll be the weirdest thing, but they loved it. And they were like these conversation starters. And or you have to finish this sentence. We'll start a story. And then you have to add your two cents to it. Like they did this kind of stuff as a family all the time. She taught them how to communicate, how to think critically, how to join adult conversations. And so knowing that, and then like, okay, how can I keep that going? How can I keep those kinds of conversations going? Um, I felt, I felt deeply like I had to continue that path and pattern for them and their lives. And we were going to remember mom this way. And we've done it a couple of times, even since then, even now that I have them all the time, you know, evening prayer time, it's again, I think I've told you before, it used to annoy me because, you know, it's nine, 10 o'clock. I'm tired. I don't have time for, I'm just tired. I want to go to bed. And even last night we had prayer time last night and we sat there for 15, 20 minutes and just chatted about the day and let them kind of tell jokes and this and that. And then we settled down and had prayer time. But that was such a special mom moment. And now they know why we do it. Like, yeah, it's prayer time. We're gonna do this because this is what mom would do. And we're gonna do this. Yeah, because we need to. It's our spiritual growth, but it's also a mom moment. It is a mom moment at night when we all gather around the couch and cuddle and yeah, they're getting older and bigger, but we're still doing it. So. That's awesome, man. That's awesome. So, at this point in the story, you're mentioning that you're showing up to the kids' events and you are trying to understand what's going on in school with them and stuff, but you haven't yet solidified a schedule with them. Right, right. So take me to the point where you're like Lord I you know Michaels gone these kids are gone I'm trying to be a part of their life as much as I can but you know What what happens to finally kind of open the floodgates of the kids are back in my life. Oh So we got all the way to summer, you know, cuz she passed away in October So we go through a hood the whole winter and there's no schedule it's just hit and miss little by little and then summer comes and That was hard because they were gone a lot. The only way I could spend any amount of time with them was to go to ball games and things. There was lots of baseball. The kids love baseball there. Last summer, oh my goodness, Dad and I had some conversations, literally standing on the fence at a baseball diamond where I'm telling you what God just came in and did something. And I don't want to give away sensitive information, but man, it was just very, very powerful what God was doing in him, what he was doing in me, and then to be able to say it together and talk through it. And so by this school year in August, it's completely two dudes parenting five kids. He said, hey, I'm not gonna fight this. There's no issues here. I'm glad you're in their lives. I want you to be in their lives. And so from August, the beginning of the school year till now, I mean three to four days a week, there was a period where he was working a lot. I had him almost like four weeks. That's all God. God just did that. It was Michael's greatest fear. How is this going to work? What's going to happen with the kids? God just did it. He just worked it out. I know a lot of people ask that question, how's it going with the kids? Michael was such the photographer she took so many pictures you know when I say thousands I mean I had to sort through 26,000 pictures on her phone and then start like cleaning them up because she didn't take one picture she took 50 pictures to find the one good picture but she never went and deleted them you know she just hearted that that's how my wife is her phone will be full and she'll like I need a new phone. I'm like, lady, you gotta get rid of some pictures. So Michael never cleaned this stuff up. It was just thousands and thousands of pictures. I am trying so hard to remember moments and take pictures and kind of keep that part of her alive. Oh man, it's crazy. The kids love to look through pictures on mom's phone. I've kept it, I plug it in every once in a while, I keep it charged. And every once in a while they'll say, hey, can we look at pictures with you? And we'll cuddle on the couch and, especially the two younger ones, you know, they're the ones I was most worried about. How do you keep mom's memory alive? They're young, you know? And that's one of the ways is that we look through her phone regularly. And now I've got a lot of pictures on my phone, so now they're always going through my phone and sure trying so hard to take pictures of events and ball games and this and that and just trying to keep up with that because it was such a big deal and You know They're gonna have events Graduation events things like that. We need to capture as many of these moments as we can and it's another piece of Michael pictures and Michael Yeah, you know we're we're part of Who she was and so yeah, yeah, I'm trying so many different ways to keep her memory alive. Yeah. Yeah so the conversation with the kids dad of You at the baseball field and just saying like just God showed up man I cannot help but think about how you were talking about how Michael would always encourage you to pray for your exes What God was doing man? Oh Those moments. Yeah, so like, you know potentially soften his heart. So what would happen in the future? Like what? Yeah, when you when you compare those two, I mean, it's just incredible. I know I don't know if I've said this on this platform or not, but I tell people all the time, you know, you and I we get to pray to God and Michael literally has God's ear. Yeah And he's proven it, like there's things happening that just can't even believe or understand. But it's God, God showing up, God being faithful. Right, you know, she told me even on her deathbed, God's going to be faithful. He's going to provide. Please trust him and believe that. So he is. Amen. Amen, man. You know, going through even the initial episode with you and how we talked about how losing Michael meant losing the kids too when you walked away from that funeral and just seeing how God has restored us. And I know there's sensitive topics that you and her ex-husband have had conversations and whatnot and God's restored that relationship from you both having these preconceived ideas of each other. But the fact that he's allowing you in is just incredible. And like I said, just back to the prayer, praying for your exes, I just think is just clear evidence that God was working. God was working, man. And so now, the kids are back in your life. But are there not administrative aspects of death that are continually reminding you of of what's taking place and you know just kind of share with us The things that you're like, oh shoot. I forgot I had to do that and you know, just things that keep kind of I don't know Gavin, you know, we We've taken care of quite a few things, but I think I think the answer to that question is is that you, I will walk into a room and find something of Michaels and anything she touched has a memory to it, right? I mean, I'm a year and a half out and I haven't touched her closet. It's still the same. I haven't touched her drawers. I'll get to it someday. I used to think I had to have a timeline. At first I was like, oh, when do I have to do this? Or when do I have to do that? And is it bad or wrong that I haven't done this yet? Does that make sense? Everything has a memory, you know? So I've quit putting timelines on those things and little by little I'm trying to go through stuff. I went through one of her jewelry drawers not too long ago and I found the first card I ever sent her, found the first letter I'd ever sent her, and I was like, ah, she kept that. That's amazing, because Michael didn't keep anything. Really? No, no, she didn't. And so that was a good moment. Like, how? She kept that, that's awesome, you know what I mean? So I'm starting to, and the kids, the girls, you know, I'll find Quinn in mom's closet and she'll start going through hats and I've seen her wear a couple hats or a shirt or a sweatshirt and I've seen Ella go through and and so we're all going through that process of What do we do with mom's stuff? So that makes sense. Yeah, and and I think for the girls I've just really been careful to just kind of let it lie and let things naturally happen and they're starting to. The girls are starting to go through things and we'll go through at some point but I want the kids to be a part of that. I don't want to just like pack everything up on my own because it was something I felt like I had to do on a checklist. If I can allow them to kind of be part of that process I think it'll help. The one that was, I don't know why it was so hard, was Michael's Van. If you knew Michael's story and how she even bought the van when she had no credit, she didn't have any money, she's a single mom trying to start life out again and you know she used to post and write about you know this van and I know her close friends know the story and how much she loved that man. I've been a mini van dad, I didn't really want to be a minivan dad again. They're so functional, man. I mean, they really are. I know, but this van meant a lot to her, and we drove the wheels off that thing. But, man, it sat in the garage, and I don't know why, it was just so hard. I couldn't drive it. I tried. I couldn't work on it. It just sat there for month after month after month. One day, I had to go get something out of it and I Marty our dog Michael had never had a dog growing up never had a dog as a Adult and so she begged for a dog and they drove all the way to Pennsylvania her and the girls and they bought this King Charles Cavalier and Marty he's awesome dog. He really is. I'm not a pet person I just I'm not kids love the animals. We I mean, we've got a couple cats. We've got fish We've got a dog and I'm not a pet person. But anyways, Marty jumped up in that van and sat in her seat. Oh, man. This is months later. He just sat there and I was like, okay, I'm not going to mess this up. So I walked back in the house and I mean, I left him out there for a while. And you have to know Marty, he's, he's excitable. He runs, he goes like he doesn't sit still. Yeah. And once, you know, I came back out there and that dumb dog still sitting there. Still sit in that seat. So you know, those are the things that you can't expect, you can't foretell, you can't warn somebody about. like grieving is just it is what it is and you don't know what's gonna trigger it but a stupid van and I struggled with it you know the kids kept asking me what are we gonna do with mom's van what are we gonna do with mom's van I don't know um craziest story it's funny it'll help me to stop crying when we am I'm trying to remember if we were engaged or if we were first married. It was a great story. I Said hey, we got it. I think we're I think we're married I said hey, it's a Saturday morning. Let's go get all our oil changed. I'll drive the truck you drive the van I think Ella was with mom in the van and so we drive the vehicles over to Chillicothe to the oil change place. You just have to know Michael. Michael was so much fun. She made everything fun, even an oil change. And it just so happened that the timing was just perfect. So instead of us being behind each other, we were beside each other in the line and they opened both the doors and pulled us both in at the same time to get Our oil changed. I don't think anything of it. I'm like, okay and Guy comes to my guy comes to my window and you know takes my information and they start working on my truck and He goes over to the Michaels window and I could tell something was up She just had a smirk on her face and Ella was in the car next thing. I know the poor guy who's Who's checked me in comes back over and says hey weird question But the woman next to you wants to know if you're single because she thinks you're cute. Oh my gosh. That's awesome, dude Oh, that's hilarious I'm like, well, yeah, I'm single. And so at this point, I'm like, okay, this is going to be fun because now I'm catching on to what's going on. And so I roll the window down and I carry on this conversation like we don't know each other and we're just flirting with each other. How are you doing? And this and that and whatnot. And so then we kind of go back to what we're doing. And he comes back over and says, hey, she wants to know if she can have your phone number. Oh my gosh, that's so funny. And the dude had no idea. He had no idea. And so I write it on a piece of paper and I give it to him and he takes it over to her. And so this goes on for a long time and I look over and he's talking to his friends like he's pointing at us and laughing and they're like, you can see the look on their faces. They're like, what? Are you serious right now? And so we get all done. And I could have paid for my oil change. And I said, hey, take my card and go over and pay for that woman's oil change too. And his eyes were this big around. He goes, really? It's $100. And I was like, yeah, it'll be okay. Go pay for it. Dude, that is so funny. Oh my gosh, dude. So you guys never told him you just drove off? We just drove off. Oh my God. Oh, that's epic. She's just, I mean, that was my wife. She's so fun. She was so much fun. And I mean, who thinks of something like that on the spur of the moment? She would. She just, you know, I had to catch, I was always catching up. Like I was always behind and always catching up because she was always doing something like that. But yeah, it was the best oil change ever. That's a great story. So you know, so think of that. You know, that van is sitting in my garage. Like what do I do with it, you know? And I know it's a van, I know it's just a vehicle. And so, you know, we'd helped Ella buy an old Honda and she was running the wheels off that thing. And so I remember one day I came home, I was like, okay, I know what I can do. We're gonna trade this fan in and help Ella get a better car. And so her and I, we go to the Hyundai dealership because Hyundai's supposed to have really good warranties. And I was like, this girl drives hard and she's gonna wear this car out. It better have a good warranty and free oil changes and all that, right? So that's what we did. And we went and got her a different car. So for my sense of preserving the van, Ella gets to carry the memory of her van in her car. And I know that sounds weird, but it's just- No, man, I think that's awesome. It's one of the things, it's just one of hundreds of things that remind you of your spouse and you're like, what am I gonna do with that? Or what am I gonna do with this? Or how am I gonna, you know what I mean? And I know it's a van, but I'm just giving you an illustration of just one thing that you worry about or work through to figure out how or what you're gonna do with this thing that reminds you of her, you know? So, anyways. Yeah, man, what a great story. What a great story. But I think it's awesome that you were able to part with that van with purpose. You know? Because maybe most people would be like, oh, I mean, I guess I have to get rid of this because we're not really using it and whatnot. But the fact that Ella could then get a nice car for her that would support her, it's cool that you could part with that in that way and still have that memory. But yeah, man, that is, um, Hmm. Oh, I just remembered another story. Cause you're talking about things, memories, children, you know, we're trying to figure out how to navigate, you know, children and grief and losing their mom and in the hospital, one of her friends messaged me and said, can you get Michael to give her children a voice message? And I was like, whew, I'll try. So she ran to Build-A-Bear and got the little voice recorders, they're just little round voice recorders, got a whole bunch of them and brought them to the hospital. And I asked Michael, and we had to do it multiple times because at this point she didn't have you know a great quality voice and so she would work herself up to a high pitch and you know name the kid and tell him how much she loved them and how special they were and and this and and it was really good and so we recorded these things to her kids and I'll be honest with you at the time I was like oh is this a good idea but then after the funeral, they went to build a bear and her and some of Michael's friends, several of Michael's friends, and they did personalized bears for each kid. And then put the recordings in them so that, you know, after the funeral, it might have been a week or two, I don't remember. We gave these bears to the kids and it has mom's voice in it. And, you know, when they're sad or lonely or, you know, need an encouragement, they can press it and then they recorded it on several of them So when they wear out they lose them, whatever we've actually got more recording recordings And so I've got them. I've got them in the closet, you know, and the kids still have them and I Don't know that's so special just But that you were talking about how people helped out. Well, that was wasn't even my idea You know, that was some of her friends saying how can we preserve Michaels? encouraging voice for those children, you know for the future and I Yeah, so Wow, we we've tried and done a little of everything, you know Anyways, I just remembered that I'd forgotten that story story. No, that's so special, man. And the fact that somebody outside of your grief, who was grieving the loss of Michael and praying for your family and loving on your family, would think of something like that. The fact that there's multiple bears and for all the kids and stuff, what a thoughtful act. And see, that's the thing when it comes to this podcast, Curtis, it's like, where do we step in, you know? And I think the answer is you step in on things that are gonna create a lasting impact. You know, food's great and cards are great and you appreciate those things. But what really matters is what I'm hearing is like the people that travel from out of town that you haven't seen in years that are there for you, you know, and whatever you can do to help a memory last. It just seems like, that's what I'm learning from this, I don't know. Right. Well, I have a friend that I went to school with, I reconnected with him a couple years ago. He lost his wife similarly at 34. Cancer, lost her really quick, had two young boys. And I've had conversations with him since Michael's past and you know One of the things that haunted me was he said those boys don't have a lot of memories of their mom they were too young and that haunted me like I've got to do anything and everything I can to keep mom's memory alive Does that make sense? Absolutely. So I remember that was a hard piece of information to get like how do you keep mom's memory alive? And so we talk about her. We look at pictures and videos. You know, there's so many things on that phone. And now I've got it all uploaded, you know, online, so I can go and find that stuff anytime. And so I've tried to preserve it in multiple places, you know, so the kids maybe someday can go through. And I don't know. I'm just doing the best I can. So I haven't packed up her stuff yet. I know it's hard. I've found Quinny in the closet crying before. It's hard to go in there, but at the same time I'm like, I want her to do that. I want her to feel and remember. Does that make sense? Mom would want that. That's part of the run to the heart is that we're not going to run away from it. We're going to kind of dive into it and do what it requires for us to, you know, feel it and be a part of it. And so, yeah, one of the hardest things ever was getting up in the middle of night and hearing one of the kids just sobbing. That's hard. Yeah. Because you can't fix it. And I knew they were also going to go through grief like this, man, don't shelter them from it. Don't hide it. Don't keep them so busy that they don't experience it. That is the opposite of what Michael would teach her children. She would say, no, no, no, we're going to feel it. We're going to go through it. We're going to seek God in the middle of it and then watch God do something with that pain. Now there's no way that I would think this way pre-Michael. I probably would have been the parent who tried to hide from it, who tried to stay busy. And I see other parents do the same, but post-Michael, she was right. She was right. She was right. Dive into it. Headlong. Yeah. Well, Scripture talks about there being a time to grieve, you know, and sometimes it's hard for us, especially as men, you know, when you're in a place where you're supposed to grieve, Oh, well, I'll be strong for the family. Right? And I'm knowing that even God says like that's okay like grieve grieve this loss grieve this loss and You know Psalm was Psalm 34 Talks about how you know, the Lord is close to the brokenhearted. Yes, and what's so profound about that is like there's deep comfort there because God is saying like not only do I know that you're brokenhearted but like I'm there with you in the suffering. You know what I mean? Like I want to respond to your pain and so we can find so much comfort in scripture knowing that like number one God has restored Michael's body and he's healed her for eternity and God knows that your family is grieving and God knows God knows when we're grieving because he loves us, you know, like it's not just like everyone grieves He's in the valley of the shadow of death. Yeah, he's there Yeah, yeah, man. Man. That's so good That's so good goodness, man, yeah, just Yeah, I mean all of these all of these pieces of I'll never forget my my best friend from high school tragically passed away in 2013 from a fire Hmm, and I remember, you know, everyone's there Supporting him and you know, we go to the funeral. We're all just so shocked. And after the funeral was over, I'm driving home and I had a conversation with my dad and my dad was like, Chris, he's like, I've never experienced this type of immense grief. What I've heard from people is that the most important thing you can do is make sure that you are checking in with them months later, years later, just to make sure people know that, you know, of course you have to return to your normal, but life's never the same for them. What can you say about that? Yeah. I don't, I don't want to, don't take this comment as a hopeless comment because I think people who experienced grief and loss of a child, a spouse, a loved one When I say the words you're never going to be the same it's not a Please don't take that the wrong way. It's just you're not like you're You're different. You see the world differently. You see people differently you You make decisions differently and So I would tell people don't chase Don't chase after trying to be the same person or the same things that you know there are some things that are going to come back that naturally will start to come back and there's some things that I Have a couple people that I watch because I want you know, they're a year or two ahead of me in this You know, I'm in a year and a half I have two people in mind right now that are like three at three years and I'm watching them and they're not the same people. Their priorities are different. I'm like, okay, what does that mean for me? You know, it's just life's not the same. It's just not. And so little by little, you'll find new purposes. You might even find new friends because you know your friend groups just don't make sense anymore. And please any of my friends out there I'm not don't take that the wrong way but you know our lives sometimes our lives just don't match or gel. And so so friendships can change, priorities can Purpose, your purpose changes. Boy, I have a young lady, I've been friends with this family for 25 years and her husband passed away 24, 25, bone cancer. kids and even played basketball as a kid with my son. Man we struggled through that one. But his wife, she has purpose, she's driven, she's a nurse, she's working with cancer victims. To hear her talk now and hear her story, she's taking this new job and and she's passionate about helping people and being there right in the middle of the hardest thing any family member is going to have to deal with. And for some of us, we're like, why would you do that? I'm telling you, it changes you. This thing changes you. You're not the same. And I was honored because she called me and said, I just wanted to tell you what I'm doing. Like, I'm working with amyloid patients. I was like, what? She's like, yeah, I just wanted you to know that. She said, I'm gonna be there when these people hear the hardest news. Purpose, right? Yeah. Yeah. Who would who would, you know, pursue that if they hadn't been through some stuff and had a new purpose and drive in life and so. It can be for good. It's some of the decisions you have to make along the way like how am I gonna run into this and allow God to use It you know and make purpose out of it, and she's an example of you know Diving in headlong she didn't have to she didn't have to pursue this This work she could have done and she talented young lady. She could have done anything she wanted This is what she's this is what she's choosing. Wow. Right? Yeah, absolutely. So Curtis, let me ask you, as we close out this episode, and man, this has been so good. You just really, just really opened up what it's like after the funeral, after the flowers and kind of shared, shared life with us and how and how life won't be the same. And that's such a real and raw comment. But one of the main pillars of this show is that running to the heart is better when you run together. What does that mean to you? Oh man, I'll never forget when we came across that whole idea. You and I have talked about two paradigms because I started this episode with, yeah, I don't want to talk to anybody, you know, leave your food on the front door, right? Because I just need some space. I'm exhausted. I'm tired. I just want to go to bed. But then there's this, I don't know, this responsibility. You begin to feel this responsibility because then you have, in the last five months, I've had three friends pass away younger than me of cancer and I know all three of their spouses well, and you know I'll check in how's it going and so there's this club that you become part of and this responsibility of you know I know what I needed and I know that Their needs may not be the same But they at least have to be seen So how you doing? It might be as simple as that and you know sometimes when they don't respond or it's a quick answer like it's okay Like I'm not offended at all because I'm like we get each other We have this unspoken language like you know when you're ready, or if you want to talk interesting enough just last week One of them Was ready to talk. It was a little weird at first about having this conversation, but I was like, it's okay, we get it, we understand. And she's like, yes, I love my friends, they've been so supportive, but they've not been through this. You know what I mean? And it was just a short conversation, but I think it was good. They felt safe. They could share. Even doubts about God. Like, man, I asked God for a favor to save my husband. Now what do I do? What do I even ask him for? Right? Yeah. I mean, it's okay. It's okay to share struggles. It's okay to work through stuff like that. We're all going to do this differently. I don't know. No, man. I think being just open to the Holy Spirit, prodding you to know when it's time to say something or when to check in, I think that's a big deal. And then just being okay with whatever the answer is, you know? Yeah, yeah. I don't know, I hope that's helpful. It is helpful and you know as we've covered certain topics in this episode, you know, when we talk about running to the hard, being better when you run together, you're mentioning you know, you're part of this grief club and life's different and it'll never be the same. And so I think that I think that those listening who are grieving in some capacity can realize that You're part of the same club. It's not a club you want to be in But how important is it to have those conversations and be able to you know glean from each other's experiences as you run to this heart of grief and knowing life's never going to be the same but you do it together. Right, absolutely. Man, so we're gonna wrap this episode up for today, man. Thank you again for just sharing your heart with us. Thank you for sharing your story with us. If you're listening to this guys, you're watching, if you think this show is gonna help someone else, you know, and they're stuck in grief and they and they really need a resource of someone like Curtis who who's just breathing out his story Of the freshness of grief and all of the emotions, please. Please do share share this episode um, you know follow the show and We're looking forward to to continuing this story. So thanks so much Curtis Thanks, bud.

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