Ep 7: The Lonely & Tempting Side of Grief

Welcometo the Run of the Hard podcast, where we're here to remind you that God doesn'tpromise us a life free from suffering, but he always brings healing andrestoration on the other end. Our goal is to inspire you to face life's trialswith courage and trust in God's plan. And oh yeah, run to the hard that Godallows. Rather than go into like these super heavy, deep topics all the time,you know, maybe it's important that we lighten it up for a hot second. Okay,every once in a while. I think we could all use that. So I'm going to put youon the spot real fast. I'm just going to ask you, tell me something good, man.I mean, we've been talking about some heavy, sad stuff. Just tell me somethinggood. Something good, huh? It can be dark. You are, you're literally putting meon the spot. Oh heck yeah. Yeah. For all those years that I sat the pine and Iwould watch you back and forth, I'd be like, is he gonna put me in? Is he gonnaput me in? You'd look at me and then you'd look to the right and then put theother guy in. Yeah, okay, I'm not a guard or anything. Now that's funny, that'shilarious. Huh, something good. Yeah, it's still podcast related probably How alot of messages come in over the last couple weeks and um, um I told somebodythe other day It's it's this a lot of pressure like it's a lot of pressure tolike Try to explain to the world who my wife was if you didn't know or like shereally was this just Really amazing outgoing personality. That's just reallyhard to describe. But every once in a while, a friend, you know, a friend ofours or a friend of hers will kind of message me and just say, man, thank youso much for talking about my friend. I miss her dearly, but you're representingher well. And that for me, that's kind of a feel-good thing because I don'talways feel like I can represent her well or tell enough stories about her ortry to explain to people just who this person was. But when an outside personsays, hey, like you're doing it, like, you know, I miss my friend and she wasawesome, but you know, you're explaining who she was. And I got one justyesterday too, so good. Even talking about, she'd gone to the hospital to visitMichael and she you know had Michaels Literally had her quote on herscreensaver of her computer and I was like she said that to you in the hospitalShe's like yeah, I'm like man Like that was that was her so those are those aresome feel-good things as we begin this episode as we plan these episodesObviously, these are heavy topics and there's a lot happening. But as we planthese episodes, we're constantly thinking to ourselves, like, okay, what arethe ways that our listeners are feeling? And a topic that's come up that youand I have been, you know, figuring out, hey, where do we put this in and howcan we best serve people is really just the feeling of loneliness and feelingincomplete. And I know a lot of people have shared their story with you. Peoplehave shared their story with me, I've been more sensitive to conversations withother people and I am getting the same general feeling that there's a pointeither in grief after you lose someone or even after you lose someone indivorce, like your experience, that there is that feeling of loneliness, I feelalone and I feel incomplete. And so as we kind of dive into this, first off,let me ask you, Michael's been gone for over a year and a half. Do you stillfeel lonely and incomplete in the place you're in right now? Oh, sure. Yeah,absolutely. Yeah, the loneliness is heavy. Grocery shopping, going to church,yeah. It can be heavy at times and it's definitely It's definitely part of theprocess But then there's also a process to work out of that as well And I'mlearning that and I'm getting help learning that whether it's a message from mypastor on singleness on or whether it's you know spending extra time with witha certain friend or I don't know, man, it's definitely a process though butloneliness is heavy whether it's been through divorce, whether it's beenthrough losing a spouse. I've experienced both which is so weird to be in bothclubs but I've experienced both You can embrace it and be challenged by it, oryou can make some really crummy decisions, you know, in trying to chase a feelgood, or, you know, there's so many wrong ways and wrong paths that you cantake, and I've seen others do it. Oh, I've been challenged. I mean, it's weird.Loneliness is definitely a thing. Yeah. Yeah, so someone's listening andthey're like, okay, if I'm honest with myself, I'm in a scary place. I feelalone. And at some level, I kind of feel like temptations that I wouldn't havethought that I felt. You know what I mean? And so just asking a guy who, hey,Michael's been gone for a year and a half. I mean, is that is that alsosomething that you've you struggle with? And if so, how like how do you resolvethose feelings? What? Oh, let's see. We're going to run to the heart of somequestions here, man. Yeah, you are. You're going to hit me hard right up front.Well. Let me answer a couple different ways. First of all, immediately afterMichael passes away, you've got this incredible... Well, we'll be back up. Bothof us were... our love language was touch. Both of us. holding hands, you know,touching a leg in church or having a foot up against each other at arestaurant. Like we just constantly, there was always, always touch. Going tobed at night, you know, holding a hand or rolling over and having your arm overeach other or something like that. Like that was just, it was so natural, sonormal. And all of a sudden you wake up one day and it's gone. Like that is themost empty, lonely feeling because you're just like, you know, what do I do?That was right off the bat in the first few months. That was by far thehardest. You know, when the kids would come around, I couldn't wait, you know,to sit down during a movie and have a kid under each arm, you know, just toexperience, you know, a loving touch. I would grab a kid and we'd sit on thecouch and watch TV because it's part of our love language. And I could see howeasy it would be, and I've seen it too, how people have chased after or jumpedright back into a relationship, whether it was divorce or the loss of a lovedone, because they were trying to fulfill this immediate need, like this thingthey just have to have right now. And so, having experienced that early on, Ididn't chase anybody, I didn't chase death, but I'm just telling you, I felt itand could see how easily somebody could fall into that and get involved in arelationship that either wasn't meant to be or for all the wrong reasons or justtrying to fill this incredible hole that's been left. Yeah, I've experiencedthat. That's a real thing and have seen others experience and struggle with it.That's some of the awkwardness. It's really weird to lose your person and bewalking down the road and see an attractive woman or something like that andalmost feel guilty about noticing them because I still feel married. So that'sanother thing. I'm lonely. I've got these huge holes but I don't not feelmarried. And so, I don't know, boy, that's another awkward. It's kind of hardto explain and be like, because I remember, you know, in divorce, I rememberwhen I got divorced, I was like, oh, okay. I can notice this person because,you know, when you're married, you guard your eyes, you guard, you know, youstarve your eyes for your spouse. You do all those things, you work on it. As amale, you know, if you're, it's work, you got to work really hard at all thesethings and when you work at that, when you get divorced, you're like, whoa, youknow, blinders off, there's pretty women around, right? Well, this isdifferent. I don't know how to explain it, it's just different. And so, youknow, I'm just out looking or seeking In fact I struggle the opposite of like Idon't know if I'm allowed to or can because I still feel Married, I don't knowhow to explain it even though I'm in the middle of loneliness And there's somebig holes missing and some things that yeah sure no no take me that was twoseasons. So when you were divorced, this is an interesting question just poppedin my head. When you were first divorced, how long did it take you to take yourwedding ring off? Oh, that is a great question. Because I remember for months,I was like, no, I'll leave it on for a while. That was just me saying, I'm notready to say I'm available. Yeah, I would say, hmm, it was a few months. Yeah,it was a few months. I left it on. And then it became a, I might have taken itoff, you know, to go to bed or something one night. And then I remember just, Inever put it back on. It wasn't a conscious decision. It wasn't like, oh, I'mjust not gonna put it back on. It was just, I forgot about it. Does that makesense? Yeah, yeah. But I remember somebody noticing it. Hey, you don't haveyour wedding ring on anymore, which was weird to me that they noticed that Ihad it on. That make sense? Yeah. Like people were watching and I didn't evenknow. People pay attention. I am kind of a yeah I'm not ready for that worldand you we've talked about that before you know the fact that I was like I'mnot gonna date I'm just gonna leave that up to Lord and I think that was one ofthose extra pieces of that puzzle like this is my commitment to Lord I'm gonnaleave this on for a while anyways yeah good question yeah and then what aboutyou know after after losing Michael I mean are you are you still wearing thering? Did you take it off at a certain point prior to you know? Oh the samething happened I wore it, you know for quite a while and then Eventually, youknow you put it away or you put it on the you know Because when you're workingwith your hands and stuff, you know having wedding rings isn't always a goodthing And so it ends up it ends up on the nightstand and next thing, you knowYou're just not remembering to wear it. And so it's not like, it wasn't aconscious decision to take it off. I think it just was a forgetful, and thenall of a sudden you're just not wearing it. I wore her hairband around my wristfor a long time. It was actually the one in the hospital. You know, she put herhair up every day. I remember when we walked out of the hospital room that day,I was grabbing all the things, and I grabbed her hair bows. There was two orthree of them laying on the counter, and I stuck it on my wrist. I wore it fora long time, it just, I don't know, it was just, it wanted something of hers onme all the time. Does that make sense? Absolutely. And every once in a whileI'll put it on, but yeah. No, good question. From a loneliness perspective, asfar as availability goes, you know, I'll ask you, I'm sure people arewondering, where are you now a year and a half later? Are you open to the Lorddoing something or are you like, Lord, I really don't think I'm ready for this?No, I'm not ready. No, I'm not. I've had a couple people freak me out. Not onpurpose. I was in line at Chipotle the other day and a pastor friend actuallyjust walked in behind me and, how you doing? And the first question out of hismouth was, hey, are you dating anybody yet? And I was like, I was a little bitshocked and I said, no, not, not really interested. And he goes, oh, I'm sorry.I mean, it was just kind of a dude conversation. I'm sorry. I just, you know,you're a young enough guy and I figured, you know, maybe you were back on themarket. I was like, no, no. So that one threw me. I wasn't ready for that atall. That one threw me. Well, what's what's even more comical about that islet's say you were ready. It's OK. So, Curtis, what's your story? Well, rightnow I have I have five, five of my ex-wife's children or five of my late wife'schildren plus my two. And I happen to be raising them with the ex-husband.Yeah. It's just like... And a dog and two cats and fish and you know andbaseball every night. Like who would want that? I mean look, you're marketable.I'm just saying there is a little bit of drama in your life. Yes. That'shilarious. Yeah. No, I mean the fact that you even bring that up tells you thatI haven't even thought about that stuff. Like, that's just not even, yeah, it'snot there. It's kind of another- I have to ask the questions in the listenersear. They're like, wait, is he on the market? I can ask it, right? That'sfunny. Yeah. No, another one shot me just a quick prayer and something aboutLord set somebody aside for this man someday. And I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa,whoa, whoa. Not even interested in that. You don't have to pray for that rightnow. I'm good. Yeah, man. Yeah. So I've been, I've been zoned a couple of timeswhere I wasn't expecting it. Sure. Yeah, sure. Well, so where does that comefrom? Because, you know, I'm trying to think from an outside perspective. It'slike, you're not ready to move on. Obviously, like you're madly in love withyour late wife, Michael. Are you in a place where you're just like, Lord,there's just no way anyone could compare? And number two, my life was so muchbetter before she was gone. I mean, what's that like? Well, that's funny yousay that because the lady that runs our office, she runs the loft, that wasMichael's business. She was actually good friends with Michael years and yearsago, like they've known each other forever. And somebody recently asked her,they said, so do you think Curtis will ever marry again? And Beth said, are youkidding me? I don't know who in the world could measure up to Michael. That washer answer to her friend. And I thought, huh, again, not thinking about it. Sowhen people say stuff like that to me, it cracks me up. But yeah, I mean, it'dbe hard. It'd be hard. And then we haven't even talked about this, but then thewhole, you know, you marry somebody else someday and then, but you still lovethe person that passed away and you want to talk about them and how do you not,where's all that comparison and all that kind of stuff? Where does that go andhow do you work that out? Like that just, that seems more messy to me thananything I've been through so far. Does that make sense? Like that seems, thatseems really messy. Yeah. Timelines though, my old basketball coach, his wifepassed away from ALS, sweet lady, and knew them since I was a little kid. Buthe remarried like 10, it might have been 10 or 12 years later. And I rememberwatching that thinking, I wonder if he'll ever remarry, and he did. Anyways.Well, so, walk me back to this entire topic, which is feeling incomplete orcomplete, rather. So, you're not dating again, you're not on the market again,you're in a place of loneliness, you feel incomplete with Michael havingpassed, as many people who are grieving their loved one feel as well. You know,talk to me about this concept of how to feel complete in your grief. Because,well, maybe that's not the question I want to ask. Really, what I'm getting atis, it's in my head. I just can't get it out the way I want it. Well, listenersout there are coming at this from different walks of life. You've gotsingleness from divorce. You've got singleness because you haven't found theright person. You've got singleness in marriage. Sorry, but some of thesepeople are out there great point yes like it's there and so and then you've gotsingleness and loss and so I think what you're asking is is There's so manydifferent types of singleness loneliness, but at the end of the day If wehaven't found our value and completeness in God, then we have really missed themark. Man, I'm diving into this hard right now because my pastor has preached amessage recently on singleness. And he challenged me because he talked abouthow the culture just beats us up. say things like, oh my better half, or we saythings like, you know, you complete me, or you know, I have a hole in my heartthat only you can, I mean, there's so many cultural phrases that beatsingleness up. And his challenge to us was, and here I am sitting in church,you know, I'm single, you know, I'll be honest with you, sometimes I just hateit and I'm having to learn to embrace loneliness and singleness, even inchurch, of all places and and I'm not the only one who struggles with that Ihave friends who do not go to church because they're divorced. They're singleand they hate it They hate going in and I'm like you gotta go. They're like, Idon't want to like I hate it So this is a real thing the struggle of lonelinessand singleness even going to church church for some people is is just this hugecrushing mountain They can't seem to get over and it's funny because now myeyes are just wide open. I'm seeing these things. I'm seeing these peopleBetter than I've ever saw them before which is kind of why we're doing thisWe're we're seeing the world differently and we're like we got to at leastbreathe it out and talk about it and be like we understand we get it. And wedon't have all the answers, but at least we can talk about it, right? Yeah. SoI think your question is, we have been our whole life that we're not completeif we don't have somebody else. The culture does that. And so my pastor'schallenge was that, listen, you know, God made you in His image. He created allof you. He has purpose for every bit of you. You are 100% complete in Him. Andso if you take a person who's 100% complete and add them to another personwho's 100% complete, that's a powerful family unit. He said, but if you take aperson who culturally thinks that they're only half complete to a person whothinks they're half complete, they're not a full family unit, not in the imageof God, because that's not scriptural. God can complete us by ourselves. And sothat's what challenged me. I was like, okay, God, like, I don't want to live.Yes, I'm dying. Like I've got this huge hole, so many things without my wife thatI miss. I miss so much about her. But yet, that doesn't mean that I'm not acomplete person, human being, character, spiritual being, eternal vessel inHim. And I'm like, okay, God, teach me, you know, teach me. What does this looklike? What does this mean? And I think you and I, as we're walking this road,we're learning these lessons as we go. We're saying these things out loud,which means we have to then reflect on them and and then internalize them andbe like okay so we see this in other people and how they're struggling in theseareas I'm struggling in these areas but as we investigate and research andrealize that you know God's not he's not done with us yet and there's so muchmore and that's what I wake up with today is that okay God this stinks there'sdays that I just don't want to do anything. But, okay, God, what do you havefor me today? What's in front of me? What do I need to be doing? Who needs tohear the good news today? Yeah. I'm going to ask you a super hard question.Sure. I'm going to ask you a super hard question. That wasn't hard enough. Iknow. Sorry. So, you're a Christian, you're listening to this, you're hearing,you are complete in Christ, but you don't feel like it. Sure. You don't feellike it. You're like, you're telling me this, but you don't feel like it. Whereis my hope? Right. Hmm. I can give you the biblical answer. And that's where Iwant to go immediately is straight to Scripture, which is how we should liveour lives. But I'm also the same human being that you're talking about that,man, I'm broke. I have big holes in my being because this person is gone. So Ican be that same person you're talking about. Well, since you are, how about Iencourage you with Scripture. Colossians 2, 9-10 says, For in Christ all thefullness of the deity lives in bodily form, and in Christ you have been broughtto But you sit there and you still feel incomplete and you still feel emptybecause you lost a loved one, just like someone listening to this. And so we'relike, Lord, you say it, but I don't feel it. Well, scripturally, it's all overthe Bible. It's like, Lord, you say I can give these burdens to you, but Idon't feel like they're being taken. Or, Lord, you say X, Y, and Z, but I don'tfeel it right so Hebrews sums it up this way Hebrews 11 1 now faith isconfidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see thereforeHebrews is highlighting the essence of faith as confidence in the promises ofGod even if we don't feel it. Yeah, which is where I was gonna go is that a lotof the mental battles that you have are what you feel and what you know andthey don't always jive. In fact, I would say most the time they don't jive.What I feel and what I know. We talked about, you know, even my doubt on herdeathbed about heaven and I had to go to what I knew I had to go to what thescripture said about heaven about eternity right because what I was feeling wasnot was not healthy it was not good what I wake up in the morning and feelabout not having my person or having a person to hold or to touch or to talk toher to connect to I mean those are those are real feelings, right? but then IHave a God in heaven the creator of the universe Who's who's saying? Hey, Iwant to be your friend Hey, I Died for you Hey, I want to spend eternity withyou like I created you to literally be in relationship with. So I feel thisthis deep hole but I know that there's bigger more powerful presence of a Godwho wants so much more. Do you get angry in your loneliness? Hmm a lot ofpeople say that grief there's a there's a period of time of anger and I and Ican honestly say I've not hit that Not I mean some people hit it and stay therea long time. I've seen it where they hit it get through it move on MichaelLiterally on her deathbed said please don't be mad at God like it's my time Itwas one of those, you know preparation conversations again where she talkedabout this. She told the kids and I, please don't be bitter about this. Don'tlet bitterness set in. Don't be mad at God. It's my time. It's okay. You allhave an expiration date. It's going to happen. or maybe softened that blowwhere I haven't had these angry episodes. I have friends who have been veryangry over loss and things like that. No. That's good, man. I think that'sGod's grace that your wife would leave that for you and you would know this iswhat she wanted. Like she wanted me to make sure that I wouldn't you know turnand be bitter and her reminding the kids and like that's such a gift. But thereality is we have people listening who maybe didn't have their loved ones likethat and they have turned to that anger and sometimes that anger turns into,man, I'm angry and so I'm gonna go make a really bad decision. I know you'vetold me in the past, you made a great line, you were like, look man, grieftends to give people an excuse to make dumb decisions. Oh yeah, it's true. Alot of places we can go there. Yeah, no, it's true. I've heard people actuallysay it to me before. Like, I'm doing this thing, I know what's wrong but God understandsbecause He knows what I've been through. And I'm like, whoa, where does thatcome from? That's not scripture at all. But yet I can tell you I understandwhere the sentiment comes from. I mean, I'm just telling you that in my darkestdarkest hour I can understand where somebody can be like Whatever like whatelse could go wrong in my life? Well, no, seriously, I'm just telling you andwhen you're in that dark place like like It can't be worse than this Sowhatever, you know what? I mean, and in those moments, you know, you can turnto I mean I've seen people who never smoked their whole lives, turn tocigarettes. I'm like, what? That's just weird. But something, they needed tofeel something, they needed to touch something. I've seen them turn to alcoholand to, you know, marijuana, turn to, you know, sexual relationships where youjust go find somebody. I'm like, whoa, you know, that could end so badly, youknow. We're out of loneliness. I'm just lonely. I just need something. And mostof it, if I could put my finger on it, is grief is so numbing. I still feelvery, very numb. I don't know how to explain it like the things that used toget me really jazzed up, you know you and I talk about like Entrepreneurialbusiness stuff man that stuff used to fire me up. Like I I just loved to startsomething new I love to build something. I still have the tools in theWherewithal to do it But I don't have the feelings anymore. Does that makesense? I just I don't. I wish I did. I wish I had I wish I had some of thatbecause I think anyways I love I love cars and working on cars a lot going tocar shows and auctions and all that kind of stuff. I mean you got a lot of dragraces. I know. I know. That's a whole other conversation. But that stuff usedto really jazz me up like I mean I would be just like let's go like just reallyfired up about that stuff and I can put ten more cars in my garage and I don'tfeel anything I'm just trying to describe what a lot of the people listenersthat are their understanding like they're just numb and so for a lot of them Icould be there easily as we just want to feel something, anything, and youcould turn to so many different things as a as a quick feel-good. And it's noteven I feel good, it's just I want to feel something. Talk to a friend, I don'tknow, it's been a while ago, and when I said the words, I get it buddy, youjust want to feel something, his eyes lit up. He was like, you said it, likethat's what I'm experiencing. I just want to feel something. And so I know thatwill resonate with some, but man, you sure can make a hard situation worse bygoing down some of those paths. Addictions are real, and all of a sudden,you're dealing with, now you gotta get out of that stuff. Oof, rough stuff.When it comes to empathy, do you feel less empathy in your numbness? Oh yeah.So you know having had some friends pass away recently like I... Knowing whatthe family is going through, I can have empathy and say the right things andcome alongside somebody, but as far as like feeling the deep hurt, the agony,yeah, I don't have that. I went to a funeral recently, two recently actually,and walked right up to the casket and put laid my hand on the casket and andbefore Michael I would have been the guy who would take a glimpse and walk awaylike that was just too hard and in the whole idea of a casket and a body andand all those things I just I couldn't go there and like I don't feel any ofthat. I'm just so the numbness in some way has made it a lot easier to dealwith hard things. Yeah, I don't know if I'm describing that the best way, butI'm doing my best. It's a two-edged sword. I think when you've experienced somestuff, you can go a lot deeper with people, which is what Michael used topreach to us all the time. You can go a lot deeper with people because you cango there with them, whereas in the past if you've never been through that hardstuff, your hand's off like that's just too hard. I don't even know how to gointo hard places. Think about the cop, the state cop, the firefighter. Imaginethe first time that they came up on a terrible accident scene, right? Andthey're the ones off in the ditch honestly puking and struggling. And I've beenwith some rookie cops before, I could tell you some stories that are gross butwhere they struggled. But having gone through some hard things like that, nowthey can fly into the worst of situations and be the one to rescue somebody ina burning car or a burning building because they've seen it all, they've doneit all. They take this numbness and now they can go headlong into doingwhatever has to be done to do their job. That's the best way I can describe it.That's really good. That's a great analogy, man. Yeah, I totally see that. Andreally where the question stemmed from is just – I – so I'll go on a veryelementary level. I have five kids and a sixth on the way. If someone with onekid comes up to me and says, like, all parenting is so hard. Right. So the wayI would describe it is like, I'm not downplaying you on purpose, but I am. Yeah.Yeah. Like just being real. And so, you know, somebody loses their house, butthey didn't lose their wife. Like, you gotta be like, okay, you'll be fine.Right? Yeah. At some level. Yeah, no, I kid it. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Hmm. Becausewhen you've been through those super hard things, like, like you said, you're alittle more jaded is not the word I'm looking for, but... Right. Jaded is notthe word I'm looking for, but you're more calloused, right? For those hardthings. And so, as we expand that conversation, you know, you and I have thisconversation off air all the time. Pain into purpose. And you talked about howthe things that you used to love and got super excited about just aren't asexciting. And I know that there's people out there, like I'll never forget,when I lost my best friend in high school in 2013, I was working at GNC, inCircleville actually, and he had died and it was like three days later and Iwas facing supplements at GNC. And I just remember like, what is the point?Like who cares if someone walks in and buys like the biggest package ever ofsupplements and I make all this commission I'm like who cares if all of this isstraight, right? It's just everything was just so like, yeah, who cares, youknow, right. So how do we take that feeling and Earn our pain is somethingpurposeful with the grief and the heart that God's allowed Yeah, I think we'retrying to do that. Every conversation I have with these kids is trying to dothat. Like, we're going to be okay. And whatever has come our way, we keep ourfocus on Christ and trust Him, for us the process, that he's going to givepurpose to all this. I have big dreams for these kids. I really do. Likethey've been through some stuff and I'm like, man, God, what are you going todo with that? Like this, this isn't going to go to waste. I don't believe thatat all. I don't, I don't believe any of this is going to go to waste. I don'tbelieve God's got some real big stuff in store for these kids as they'relearning how to navigate life in such a weird way. We had a family meeting theother night and I was like, because every once in a while you just have to.They're growing up so fast that now I've got a house full of teenagers,legitimate teenagers like 12, 14, 16, like, oh my goodness, like, the house isnuts. And so, you know, we were going over all the rules of, okay, internetrules, computer rules, you know, what movies we watch, all of it, because I'mlike, okay, guys, we're growing up so fast, like, y'all gotta hear thesethings, here's the rules of the house, here's the rules, you know. Anyways, andthen I finished it by saying, guys, here's the deal. Like, I know this isweird, you know, you're being raised by two dads. And I said, I know you need amom. And I know, you know, and I look at little Quinn and she's, you know,she's grown up so fast and, you know, she needs all the mom things, you knowwhat I mean? And I'm like, we're gonna do our best, you know, but we're alsogonna make sure that there's certain people in their lives who can help alongthe way. And I'm a product of a single mom who didn't have a dad growing up.And so I know that God can provide and give provision for all the things thatwe don't think we have. Does that make sense? Don't struggle as much with allman. We don't have I Struggle more with I Hope I don't miss the pieces thatGod's laying out for us and for these kids to be able to get everything theyneed to to be prepared for this life and after and anyways It was just it wasnot those moments where, you know, so we don't, we don't like ignore it, theweirdness. We talk about it, we embrace it, we're like, this is weird, youknow, but it's our life. Who are the kids? We're like, yeah, we get theweirdest questions, like, what's it like to hang out with your stepdad and yourdad and this and that? And then one of the other kids was like, that's awesome.Cool. Yeah, go ahead. I'm sorry. No, no, no, you're good. So, so I'm going totake again, like the deep and dark of the grief that you all have experienced,and I'm going to downplay is not the word, but basically compare it tosomething that's different. Okay. But there's still a grief about it. So, takeme to a place where, and this might be hard, but take me to a place where youwere divorced, and let's just imagine that God did not bring Michael into yourlife. You did not have these five kids. Your two kids are grown. They havetheir spouses, right? And now you're by yourself without these five kids. Whatwas life going to look like, you think, had you not remarried anyone and beenin a completely different place? There's plenty of people who have notexperienced that. Right? You've gone super hard at business, but you've justgone nuts on the real estate. Well, I kind of did. So I already know the answerto the question because a good friend of mine kicked me in the butt. It was oneof the best advices I had gotten after divorce. I got some really good ones,but one particular friend, he pulled me in and he's like, listen, you know, yougot to stop feeling sorry for yourself. Yes, this stunk. You can't fix it. It'sbroken. You're not going to be able to fix it. So you need to get back to doingwhat you know how to do. And he pushed me. Basically, he was like, so what isthat Curtis? And at that point, you know, I'd already stepped away from thecollege, had got headlong into a real estate company, had been buying upproperties. And you know, here I am going through a divorce and he said, how'syour employees doing? I'm like, yeah, they're not so good. He's like, why? Like,because I'm not around, I've been hiding. He's like, well, probably I'd be thefirst thing you go take care of. Go take care of your employees. That was goodadvice. Like seriously, they're there. They love you. They're supporting you,but they're dying over there. Like you need to go take care of your employees.And it was a really good swift kick in the butt because I was like, you'reright. You're right. And then, um, it's really interesting how God's timing,we've talked about God's timing so many times, but about the same time this guycomes to me and says, Hey, we need to go to lunch. My wife says that I have allthese ideas and dreams and she says, You need to talk to Curtis. I like how youand I have connected over the years. And so Devin comes to me and hits me up atchurch one day and was like we need to go lunch My wife says that every time Italk, you know I talk about things that you're already doing and we just needso anyways We go to lunch we tell our stories and and we make this connectionAnd so, you know really long story short was that we go into business together.And so I have a Lot of rental properties. I've got some flips I have amanagement company and then we bought a bunch of cabins down at Hocking Hills.So now we're into the Airbnb rental business crazy and I couldn't have done itwithout a partner, but anyways This guy, you know, basically is like dude getback on the horse And and I I needed that I needed to get refocused. And so Iwent a hundred miles an hour Back into work was loving it my new friendshipwith Devon. We were having a blast Starting something new. Well, then God givesme Michael right in the middle of this. I mean we're going hard I Just I neverI never talk about business stuff on our podcast much because I'm God God hasgiven me and blessed me with anything and everything I've ever had. But at thatpoint, we had like 200 rentals. We had nine rental cabins. I mean, we weredoing a bunch of stuff and we were busy, had employees, had an office. And andthen, of course, Michael comes in the picture. We start a wedding venue in themiddle of all of that. We start a wedding venue. And so we're you know, I'mjust slammed. I'm going hard. And so for me, for me, I needed that. I neededsomebody, first of all, to push me. Second of all, I needed focus. I neededfriendship. And God literally gave me a great friend right in the middle ofthis, this heart and this hurt. And he and I, we're buds. We're thick. We don'tdo much business-wise anymore. We sold that business. Once I got married andlife got really busy, I was like, whoa, something's got to give. And so we soldthat business off and did some other things. But God provided the pieces. So,yes, I needed a kick in the butt, but God also provided friendships, pieces,opportunities, and I just started walking through doors. Which challenges menow, because in the middle of all this, I'm back there And I I'll be honest.This is me just being wide open with the world. I am struggling to get focusedon anything like I I Know I should be doing X Y & Z and and it's just it'sdifferent. It's a different kind of grief It's been harder to get refocused andto get re-energized. Like I don't feel those things. So, anyways. Yeah. No,man. That's... And I'm glad... I'm glad we were able to cover that becausethere is this piece of when you are isolating yourself and when you're, youknow, more or less feeling sorry for yourself at some level, for lack of betterwords, if we're not beating around the bush here. Yeah. You have somebody tokind of kick you in the pants and say like, hey, get back on the horse. And soI want you, because I can't, Curtis, I want you to speak to a listener who's ina place right now, who it's like, let's just say it's someone who didn't eventake those risks early on in life, and it's not even an entrepreneur, but thekids are out of the house, they lost their spouse, and they have to work, theyhave to pay the bills, they have to do the thing. Yeah, you know Purpose theyfeel incomplete if you're lonely in their endeavors, I have no one to share itwith you know You're sitting at coffee with this person. It's an intimateone-on-one conversation Mask off. It doesn't even matter what you say. Sure.What do you say to this person to move them forward? Well, first of all havingbeen through this and and seeing people going through it. I've seen people loseeverything. The person you're talking about right now, I mean it's inches, it'scentimeters from either turning the corner or losing everything. I've seen peopledo it. I've seen them in grief like, I don't care, nothing matters. I justdon't feel anything, I don't want to do anything, and I can't fix this. And Ican tell you that because I can see having been going through it how easy itwould be for me to just turn it off, go to bed, and just not care. And I couldlose it all really, really quick. I could make bad decisions. I could just quitdoing what needs to be done. And the next thing you know, it's it's just it'sall gone and so I think I Wrote a series of posts Couple months ago just mygrief journey like 1 through 12 a I don't remember Where where I I I did but Ididn't I wasn't like jamming it down people's throat. I was just telling themlisten it might be getting out of bed. It might be getting in the vehicle andgoing running one errand for the day. Just one. It might be writing one billfor the day. It might be making one phone call for the day. It might be theperson who keeps saying let me take you to lunch, let's go to dinner, let's goto dinner, and you're like, I don't want to. It might be just one of those aweek. Just accept one friend's request to go to lunch. You have to do it everyday, but just one. It might be. For me, my go-to has been walking. When you layin bed for three months, your body shuts down. I couldn't even walk across theparking lot. That's just me being super vulnerable and open and telling youthat in three months I let myself go so bad. Arthritis kicks in. I'm on painmeds, I'm a mess, like my heart is out of rhythm, I have to go to the heartdoctor, I have let myself physically, and honestly, I'm like, who cares, I'mready to go, that's such a bad place to be. And every time I would get in thesereally, really bad places, it was a Michael nugget. It was a Michael moment thatlike would push me over the top where Michael's saying, listen, there arepeople depending on you. They need you. You've got to keep doing this. Thoseare her words. And I have to wake up and be like, you're right, babe. You'reright. Like I gotta, I gotta do something. And so making a phone call to mydoctor, maybe, maybe somebody is out there like they're a mess and they don'tknow what to do. Maybe it's a phone call to your doctor, to a chiropractor,to... So, to start off with, it's the smallest baby steps. You're not going togo from, you know, here to here. You're going to do these little incrementalthings. That's what I'm going to tell them. And then I'm going to ask them, youknow, what were your passions before grief? You know, well, I love to read.Well, I don't care if it's five minutes a day, read for five minutes. The nextday, five minutes. The next day, and then work to 10 or 15. And that goes withBible pray, that goes with Bible reading and prayer and stuff like that too.Like people, I've heard people say, I don't know what to say to God. And youknow what I tell them? Just cry out to Him. You don't have to say anything tothem. Just cry out to them. Sometimes I wake up in the morning I'm like, ohGod, I just I don't know what to say. I don't know what to ask for. But man, Ineed your help today. small steps, just small steps. For me it was I would tryto do three things, run an errand, make a phone call, pay a bill. It seems sosimple but that's all I could do and then a little bit more and then a littlebit more and then a little bit more and then some crazy guy comes in and sayshey we need to do that. You know, and I want to share your story with the wholeworld. You got stuff to say. And I'm like, you know, so, you know, do the littlethings and then watch what God will do with your little things. That's what Iwould that's what I would tell people. Man, do the little things. Just startsmall and God will recognize and they'll begin to strengthen you and Help youto do things that you're not ready for you're not prepared for but you'll startto Feel good, man. It's so So good such great advice because I know people arefeeling feeling that way who are listening and You know I'm gonna put you onthe spot again. As we end this episode. First, I'm going to ask you tospecifically pray for those that are listening to this that are feelingincomplete, that are feeling lonely, that are feeling like they can't put onefoot in front of the other, no matter what grief it is, whether it's the griefof like my kids just left college and I don't know what I'm doing and I'mdivorced, or whether it's like, oh my goodness, like I lost my spouse or I losta child, you know, people are hurting and that is why we're doing this. And soI'm going to ask you to minister to them in a prayer as we end this episode.Sure. And we'll see everyone next time. All right, I can do that. Oh man, Lord.I know that the heaviness of this can be overwhelming. I know, you know, Chrisand I talk a lot about the things we want to plan and prepare for, but Lord,when we turn the mics on and actually do it, Lord, there's just this next levelof heaviness and burden for those who are listening. Lord, it's about the oneperson today who's tuning in for the first time who doesn't know us from Adam,and they're just broke, and they're wanting to know where to turn to. Lord, Ipray for that person right now. We've had several over the last couple weekstune in and say, man, I needed this. I said, man, I needed to hear somebodyelse who's been going through this. And so Lord, I do pray for that personright now who's tuning in and saying, guys, I need hope. I need to know thatthere's something worth living for. I can tell you, Lord, you've been faithfulto me personally, you've been faithful to my family time after time after time.Lord be faithful to that person right now. Come alongside them, let them feelyour presence, let them feel something that they are made in your image, thatyou created them, that you gave them purpose, you gave them possibilities. Ohman, if there was a word for a day, it would be possibilities. Lord, thislife's not over. There's still more to be done. And I pray for their situationright now. Lord, this life's messy. Lord, I know what messy looks like. And there'sso many moving pieces. There's so many complicated parts of life to figure out.I pray for the person right now who's struggling financially. They've losttheir loved one. They didn't have an insurance policy. They didn't have, theirhouse wasn't paid for. They're looking for a new job to make ends meet. Lord,we hear those stories. I pray for that person right now. Lord, come alongsidethem. Give them the provisions that they need. Lord, I pray for those kids wholost mom or dad. Lord, there's some kids out there who are struggling and theydon't even know who or what to turn to. I pray that you would be the father tothe fatherless. God will protect them, put a hedge of protection upon them.That's what I pray for our kids each and every day, that you would protectthem, guide over and comfort them like only you can. And Lord, for what we'retrying to do. Lord, it's all yours. We gave it to you on day one. We said,Lord, do with us whatever you would. So we do that. We give it again to you,Lord. Thank you for Chris. Thank you for his wife. Thank you for them pressinginto me and pushing me to do uncomfortable things. Thank you for Kevin. Thankyou for the people who have come alongside us and are encouraging us to do thisthing. And Lord, we're going to give you all the honor, the praise, and theglory. And we're going to ask these things in Christ's name. Amen. Amen. Thankyou, Curtis. Thank you for sharing today, man. Guys, again, just as he said inthat prayer, we want God to carry this podcast to the ears that need to hearand the eyes that need to see because this is a divine project. This isn'tsomething where two dudes are on here trying to fix the world. I mean, God'sgoing to do something. And so the only way for us to be used as a vessel in that,if you're listening and you're watching, is for you to share. Share thisepisode with someone who needs it. Share this with your feeds on social media.Rating the show would be super helpful. We read every review and we send it toeach other and we're like, oh, thank you, Lord, that this is helping So you cango to rate this podcast.com slash r t th to rate the show on any of your majorplatforms And if you're not signed up for our run to the hard newsletter Youcan go run to the hard comm and sign up for the newsletter So Curtis, thanksagain, man, and we'll see you next time. Thanks